Iridologist / Acupuncturist

I also thought Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). Unfortunately there is no cure, and no test to diagnose it. It does eventually get better though.

A friend had good success with yoga, meditation, giving up alcohol and caffeine and generally trying to be super healthy and also taking great care not to over do things.

No, I’m not Jim Jones. I was simply addressing one comment. But choose to ignore what I said, that’s up to you.
I am letting this thread go.

motleychick said :

Woody – symptoms include severe joint pain, constant tiredness, not sleeping, easily worn out, severe headaches (not all the time, but very often), I get flus and colds all the time… That’s all I can think of right now. According to the GP it’s probably all stress related. Pfft.

Sounds like chronic fatigue syndrome. But I know precisely jack all about this sort of stuff.

Regardless – I really hope you manage to diagnose and/or (even better) get on the mend.

FC: You’re clutching at straws now. Just let it go.

motleychick: I don’t think you are a hypochondriac at all. I grew up in a small NZ village, where there were quite a number of people persistently sick for around 3 years. No one could figure it out, until eventually it was traced to giardia (microorganism in the water supply, it was not even meant to be in the country at that point.) However, for 3 years there were all these unwell but undiagnosed people. It happens!

I don’t know if you have tried it yet, but you could also go down the food allergy path, and have a look at what happens when you really strictly control your diet, get tested to see if there are any that really cause you issues, and try cutting out all the really common allergens, and see what happens.

Woody – symptoms include severe joint pain, constant tiredness, not sleeping, easily worn out, severe headaches (not all the time, but very often), I get flus and colds all the time… That’s all I can think of right now. According to the GP it’s probably all stress related. Pfft.

SheepGroper said :

FC said :

A person UNTRAINED in medicine? WTF do you think that practictioners study.
For many it would be 4 years full times study, then further study to specialize in whatever they choose their speciality to be (irodology/acupuncter/homeopathy etc)

Same thing as Scientology. They study for years and spend thousands of dollars to get “clear” and gain the ability to levitate. If you’re willing to pay you can get people to sell you anything. Even the service of looking after your pets after you get raptured.

I missed the part where scientology is a government accredited course.
Naturopathy, which homeopathy is studied, is.
So no, it is not the same things as scientology at all.

Motleychic
I know what you are going through, I have had several blood tests, one or two showed something, have been to a coulple of GP’S, one of the GP’s should have sent it to a blood specialist, I have also been to two specialists, its not in my mind, I’m glad my own GP knows, he told me a man went to all the specialists and showed nothing, and it finially went away by itself, it could go anytime or I may have I’ll have it for 12 years, I believe it was either caused by stress or malaryia tablets I had taken years ago in PNG, as I looked up side effects from the drug and that was one of them, but cannot get my records from Defence, they are lost, yeh sure!

There is an iridologist at the health food shop downstairs in the hyperdome every few Saturdays – perhaps you can pop in and ask when the will next be in?

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

I think we all need to take a moment to pray for Jim’s car.

Try homeopathic petrol.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Bold? Tell my wife who went from GP to GP for five years with the key symptoms only to be given advice like “it’s lifestyle”, “it’s stress”, “eat less spicy food”, “maybe you’re allergic to something, but I don’t know what” or “let’s order some blood tests – hmm, all normal, well, I’m stumped.”

Walked into Tim Watson’s surgery. He took a history, ordered a breath test, diagnosed a course of three antibiotics, and she was suddenly cured.

…I don’t equate that story as evidence of the claim that “most GPs don’t know about H. pylori”.

Erk – prescribed, not diagnosed.

Bold? Tell my wife who went from GP to GP for five years with the key symptoms only to be given advice like “it’s lifestyle”, “it’s stress”, “eat less spicy food”, “maybe you’re allergic to something, but I don’t know what” or “let’s order some blood tests – hmm, all normal, well, I’m stumped.”

Walked into Tim Watson’s surgery. He took a history, ordered a breath test, diagnosed a course of three antibiotics, and she was suddenly cured.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Have you ruled out a heliobacter infection? Really common, but very few GPs know about it.

Bold claim, that.

I think we all need to take a moment to pray for Jim’s car.

motleychick – don’t suppose you could give us the symptoms? Have you ruled out a heliobacter infection? Really common, but very few GPs know about it (pretty sad considering a couple of Aussies won the Nobel prize for medicine in 2005 for sussing the nasty little bugger out).

motleychick said :

SheepGroper – my GP has left so it might be worthwhile to see the one that replaces him – apparently he’s very good. Fingers crossed!!

I’ll cross my everything for you!

SheepGroper – my GP has left so it might be worthwhile to see the one that replaces him – apparently he’s very good. Fingers crossed!!

I went to the doctor and complained of stomach pain.

He gave me a prescription for suppositories and I went back a week later to tell him my guts were still hurting. For all the good they did me I might as well have stuck them up my arse.

motleychick said :

I probably sound like the biggest hypochondriac right now.

No, you sound like someone with a legitimate worry. Could you try a different GP? Different people, different experiences, the new GP might be able to see a pattern in the symptoms that your previous one couldn’t. Please don’t throw your money away on frauds.

I probably sound like the biggest hypochondriac right now.

Only problem with that Jim is that I don’t know where it’s all coming from, so if it came to seeing a specialist I would have no idea what kind of specialist to see, and since blood tests that cover pretty much everything come back with no result, the GP didn’t know where to send me either!!

motleychick said :

Thanks MSG, will definitely take that on board. I just really hate going to the doctor and discussing what’s wrong with me, but it’s been going on for too long to just let it go me thinks.

If you can, get a referral to see a specialist.

GPs are spread much too thin these days, and honestly they can’t be expected to know everything anyway. If you can see a specialist (or even multiple specialists) in the area of your problem, then you’re much more likely to get a reasonable diagnosis.

I will offer you a bottle of Placebo with Laudanum(TM).
Laudanum is diluted into it at around 13C (homeopathic scale), so it must be good for you.

Its the leading brand of placebo, and is recommended by Nine Out of Ten Experts.
It is safe for both topical, oral, and rectal applications.

Thanks MSG, will definitely take that on board. I just really hate going to the doctor and discussing what’s wrong with me, but it’s been going on for too long to just let it go me thinks.

motleychick: if I was in your position, I’d also be trying a couple of different GPs, and then forking out the dollars for as many tests as possible. I have been through the experience of watching a housemate get sicker and sicker, as the doctors insisted he has a stomach ulcer, and unfortunately it turned out to be cancer, something the GP had ruled out solely based on his young age. THat was when I vowed that if I ever had persistent unwellness I would be getting out the credit card and having every medical test possible done, just in case.

FC said :

A person UNTRAINED in medicine? WTF do you think that practictioners study.
For many it would be 4 years full times study, then further study to specialize in whatever they choose their speciality to be (irodology/acupuncter/homeopathy etc)

Same thing as Scientology. They study for years and spend thousands of dollars to get “clear” and gain the ability to levitate. If you’re willing to pay you can get people to sell you anything. Even the service of looking after your pets after you get raptured.

FC said :

For many it would be 4 years full times study, then further study to specialize in whatever they choose their speciality to be (irodology/acupuncter/homeopathy etc)

I could study the delicate science of reading goat entrails for a decade and it still wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that it just doesn’t work.

Lots of people study really hard to be priests and God doesn’t even exist.

FC said :

But I’m sorry, becuase some Ill-informed person on the internet thinks that the ‘science’ doesn’t prove it

You’re referring to the link I posted? About the dedicated iridologist who studied hard and tried his best to be a good iridologist, but after talking to real doctors started looking at the methods he was using more carefully, and examining his results critically? I’d think a fully qualified iridologist admitting that the 3D structures in the eye are almost impossible to photograph under identical conditions twice isn’t an ill-informed person.

motleychick said :

This will make me a 3-post nutbag

I got in the middle!!!

That makes you a defacto 2.5-post nutbag.

This will make me a 3-post nutbag

I got in the middle!!!

This will make me a 3-post nutbag, but it’s a nice little wrap-up of homeopathy and science:

http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Medicine/Homeop.html

Phrases such as: “Pending further evidence, homeopathy remains a form of placebo therapy”; “despite the large number of comparative trials carried out to date there is no evidence that homeopathy is any more effective than placebo therapy given in identical conditions”; and “Pending further evidence, homeopathy remains a form of placebo therapy” are repetitive.

Also worth noting is: “There is one case reported in the human literature where a patient followed her homeopath’s advice and took a homeopathic immunization against malaria before traveling to an endemic area. The patient promptly got malaria.”

Just so you’re all aware – I’m not going to the iridologist for them to give me homeopathic medicine or anything like that – I plan on going to give them a try to see if they are able to point out what may be wrong so I can go back to my GP and get tests for that particular thing. I honestly do not believe in this homeopathy, or hollistic medicine, but I guess I just think it’s worth a try.

FC said :

BECAUSE IT WORKS FOR THEM AND THEIR HEALTH IMPROVES!!

Where’s the evidence for this?

If it’s so widespread, why is there not a shred of evidence?

“The reason why such things still exist and have an every increasing client base, is because they show results.”

Utter bollocks. There’s a complete lack of demonstrable results. Show me some verifiable scientifically based tests and I’ll look at them. All homeopathy has to offer is a couple of anecdotes and an antagonism towards scientific (evidence-based) medicine.

As for “one dodgy homeopath must mean that all the others are dodgy”. This bloke was the poster boy for homeopathy in Brisbane – but as soon as he let his child die the entire industry fell over themselves to distance themselves from him. The amount of cached homeopathic webpages that differ since his public arrest is notable.

Why anyone would put their health in the hands of people using untested, unverified methods truly astounds me.

chewy14 said :

FC said :

The reason why such things still exist and have an every increasing client base, is because they show results.

Wow,
this must mean that those faith healers in America really do work.

No, it doesn’t mean that at all.
What I am saying is that people usually go to ‘alternative medicine’ after being fed up with either lack of answers/cure from GP or intollerable side effects, and then they stay going, BECAUSE IT WORKS FOR THEM AND THEIR HEALTH IMPROVES!!
But I’m sorry, becuase some Ill-informed person on the internet thinks that the ‘science’ doesn’t prove it, I guess their improved health must all be psychosomatic huh?

A person UNTRAINED in medicine? WTF do you think that practictioners study.
For many it would be 4 years full times study, then further study to specialize in whatever they choose their speciality to be (irodology/acupuncter/homeopathy etc)

FC said :

The reason why such things still exist and have an every increasing client base, is because they show results.

Wow,
this must mean that those faith healers in America really do work.

And Jim Jone – WTF would a ‘wholistic mechanical approach’ be? would it be that your mechanic also provided you with driving advice and tips for maintaining your car to prevent it breaking down?

motleychick said :

TS – I’m not very well, and have not been for a very long time, although have had no luck with my GP and blood tests have proven nothing.

So why not try talking to another GP? I watch an interesting series on Foxtel where people come down with symptoms that don’t appear to make sense initially, and which get worse as the underlying condition fails to be properly diagnosed and treated. Eventually the persistance of the sufferer, or their parent results in getting the correct diagnosis and treatment. The point being that the sufferer either does research to work out what medical condition they have, then requests the correct diagnostic tests to confirm it, or happens upon a doctor who is able to recognise the symptoms of a rare disease.

I don’t doubt that you could be suffering from something for years that hasn’t been correctly diagnosed yet, but it seems really unlikely that a person untrained in medicine would be able to point out what’s wrong.

Thoroughly smashed. I am quite aware of Samuel Hahnemann and his legacy. and yes, this isn’t the place to get into it.
Jim jones – of course one dodgy homeopath must mean that all the others are dodgy.. I mean who has every heard of a GP, (or prescription medicine for that matter) causing illness and death. :S

The reason why such things still exist and have an every increasing client base, is because they show results.
And one of the main principles of Natural medicine is ‘do no harm’. I know FAR more people who have been left up sh_t creek without a paddle from medicine/advice from their local GP than I have from homeopathy or natural medicine.

http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/breaking-news-national/mum-homeopath-accused-over-babys-death-20090504-asi9.html

FC – absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If my mechanic can’t find the problem with my inoperative car, does this prove that science-based physics are useless and should be jettisoned in favour of a ‘wholistic mechanical approach’?

Yeah, it’s worth keep an open mind, but never at the expense of having an empty brain. There’s mounting data to support beneficial effects of acupuncture (depending on what it’s used for), but I’ve never seen or heard of anything about iridology that has characterised it as anything but pseudo-scientific nonsense … like homeopathy (ooh, let’s ignore the benefits and rigor of science and pretend the Enlightenment never happened).

Motleychick, whatever the problem is, I’d strongly suggest a range of opinions from as many credible specialists as you can find.

Seeking solace in the opinions of soothsayers and snakehandlers can end with some very nasty results (just take the example of the homeopath who let his child die slowly in massive pain and suffering, rather than take it to an ‘allopathic’ doctor who could have cured the problem quickly and effectively).

Thanks for the advice guys. Just kinda stuck in a rut and don’t know what else to do at the moment. CapitalK – if I do decide to go through with it, I hope to god they don’t tell me to do something that I already do more than enough of!!

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated too. 🙂

They’ll tell you to drink more water and eat more greens.
Excellent advice except I’ve just paid a fortune for such advice + some remedies and whilst I have had results, I could have had the same effect by reading more on the internet before rushing off to a natural therapist.
Good to explore, just cut it short before you spend too much $$$

“It must all be in my head!!!! ”
Well there’s the science now to back up the mind-body stuff!
I hope you find the answers you are looking for 🙂

FC: If indeed you make no claims regarding its efficacy then my last comment was clearly a little off the mark, however your use of the term “allopathic” to refer to conventional medicine is telling. I could go on all day about the legacy of the man who came up with that word but this isn’t the place for it.

Nobody claimed conventional medicine has all the answers (the human body is a very complicated organism,) and nobody’s suggesting it’s all in her mind either. The simple fact that conventional medicine appears not to have offered her relief in this circumstance doesn’t mean unproven alternatives will.

motleychick: As far as iridology is concerned my sincere advice is not to waste your money on a treatment that – whenever subjected to rigorous, controlled clinical trials – hasn’t been shown to be effective. Acupuncture on the other hand is a tricky one as some studies suggest performance better than placebo, which it seems to achieve by influencing endogenous opioid production and through that contribute to short term pain relief, and I can think of much cheaper ways to obtain short-term opioid based pain relief from my local pharmacy. It should be noted that “sham acupuncture”, which doesn’t break the skin, performs no worse than acupuncture when tested alongside traditional acupuncture.

Some reading on the topic:
http://www.skepdic.com/iridol.html
http://www.skepdic.com/acupuncture.html

It must all be in my head!!!! Jim I know where you’re coming from. Like I said in my previous post, I really don’t believe in this type of medicine, but it’s worth a try, and if they can tell me what’s wrong then I can go and get the right tests done by my GP. Just testing out any avenue that I can at the moment. Am sick of being sick. And am sick of not being able to pin it on something. Just trying to be open-minded for once.

so it would seem, in this case, that they would have been better off investing in goat’s entrails as a means of forecasting lotto results than they would in allopathic medicine.

well from her post above, you can see that she has already invested her time and money into allopathic methods of medicine (which according to most of you are the only credible methods) but with no success… perhaps she is just imagining her illness then?

motleychick – I think you’d be better of investing in goat’s entrails as a means of forecasting lotto results than you would sinking any cash in iridology.

Might I inquire as to the reason for seeking the services of an iridologist or acupuncturist?

TS – I’m not very well, and have not been for a very long time, although have had no luck with my GP and blood tests have proven nothing. I’m not a firm believer at all in these types of things, but I’ve heard good things about iridologists and thought that maybe if I gave it a try they may be able to give me answers. Not that I should have to explain myself. Just wanted to see if anyone knew of somewhere good to go before I spend my money on going to someone who is shit.

Who’s claiming anything?

all I was clarifying was that it is nothing to do with “damage showing up instantly in the eye” as stated by one poster.
I merely sought to clarify what iridology actually is.

*smile*

From the link to the story of the practicing iridologist:

“More than once during this period an eminent iridologist would call me to his office and show me a change he had recorded in patient’s iris minutes after doing a spinal adjustment.”

That shows that you could prove iridology with the lamb torture experiment.

After all, the basis of iridology is that nerves from all over the body connect to the iris ( by an as yet undiscovered method ), so the iris would start to react as fast as snatching your hand away from a hot stove. Although – different schools of iridology map body parts to different parts of the iris.

It’s all well and good to claim something is true, but you would do well to provide supporting evidence…

*sigh*
“When particular, distinctive markings are present on the iris, the location and nature of these markings indicate specific disorders in the corresponding organs.
Every organ and part of the body is represented in the iris in a well defined area. Through various marks, signs, and discoloration in the iris, nature reveals inherited weaknesses and strengths.
The most important benefit of iridology is early warning. An iridologist can tell an individual his inherited and acquired tendencies towards health and disease, his current condition in general, and the state of every organ in particular. Potential problems can be identified ahead of time.
• For example, a person with signs in the digestive area can be guided towards measures to improve gut health, thereby avoiding future potential problems there.
Iridology cannot detect a specific disease, but, can tell an individual if they have over or under activity in specific areas of the body. For example, an under-active pancreas might indicate a diabetic condition.”

Efficacy is in the eye of the deluded.

FC said :

you’ve got the wrong end of the stick sheep groper.
Damage does not show up instantly in the eye..

How long does it take then? According to the inventer of the method, he was trying to get a large owl out of a trap but snapped its leg as they were looking at each other, and he saw a black mark appear in the eye there and then.

FC said :

you’ve got the wrong end of the stick sheep groper.
Damage does not show up instantly in the eye..

Or ever, if you happen to be running a controlled study into the efficacy of the practice.

you’ve got the wrong end of the stick sheep groper.
Damage does not show up instantly in the eye..

‘owls of derision?

Here’s an article written by a professional iridologist you might want to read before spending your money – http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/confessions.html

It always seemed odd to me that if damage shows up instantly in the eye, like the famous owl, why it hadn’t been proven by filming the eyes of lambs as they had their tails and testicles sliced or burned off without anaesthetics. It’s as major an injury as the famous owl breaking its leg after all. But then, if iridology was proven to work, it would become part of the medical world along with other techniques that have been proven to work.

Frank Castenado at Pearce Shops – Back In Balance.

So much for that…

Might I inquire as to the reason for seeking the services of an iridologist or acupuncturist?

Lifegate at Duffy shops for traditioal Chinese acupuncture.

http://www.lifegate.com.au/Duffy_Clinic.html

If the practitioner says that he is going to put needles in your eyes, run away.

http://www.thehierophant.com.au/Consultation/
Kim Dudley

Ooh this is going to be good.