Land Cruiser road raging on a bus

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And for all of those arguing about the merits of small versus heavy, multi passenger vs four wheel drive etc. Some people have a genuine need for their vehicle.

Maybe, but most 4WD owners don’t. A 10 second look around the carpark at my kid’s school is evidence of that. Easily half the vehicles are full sized 4WDs, mainly being driven by mums, many of whom struggle to park.

Sarge51 said :

Now, can someone explain to this forum, how can a stationary vehicle collide with anything?

I guess you can get creative when defining your inertial reference frame.

It is also interesting to note that a few weeks ago, there was an accident involving a Action Bus and a Volvo sedan on Athllon Drive.

The media report was “Action Bus collides with car.”

The facts for that accident was that the bus was stationary at a set of red traffic lights and the driver of the Volvo had a seizure and drove straight into the rear end of the bus, causing substantial damage to the bus and the Volvo was certainly a candidate for the wreckers.

Now, can someone explain to this forum, how can a stationary vehicle collide with anything?

Feng said :

The only curious aspect to this is why did the bus driver not stop to at least try to exchange details with the four wheel drive owner immediately after they first collided. Presumably he knew that the bus and four wheel drive side swiped each other or it wouldn’t have been in the above release.

Exactly my thoughts. +1

As it has been mentioned earlier, there was NO earlier collision or side swipe between the two vehicles. It appears the word “ALMOST” was omitted from the statement by either the police release or the journalist reporting it.

The bus was stationary when it was rear ended and the 4wd operator did a u-turn and drove off. Therefore, exactly how was the bus driver supposed to exchange details?

As it turns out, the 4wd operator has admitted full liability for the incident and the Action bus driver was totally innocent of any wrong doing and a victim of a brain snap as was quoted to the police by the 4wd operator.

It is also curious to note that there are so many people out there that are ready to blame Action Drivers for every road incident and presumably, the same people pounce on the anti 4wd band wagon whenever possible. So much for living in a country where you are assumed innocent until proven guilty with sufficient evidence. Lucky we don’t have the death penalty because it seems there are a lot of one eyed judges out there that would execute a driver because he/she dares work for Action buses.

Just for interest, the kerb weight of a Tarago is 1725kg, whereas a Landcruiser is 2555kg, or 830kg heavier.

Everyone, including bus drivers, are supposed to indicate for a mandatory period of time – I think it’s 3 seconds from memory – before they take the relevant action. A small number of bus drivers (or may be it is even just one bus driver in different parts of the ACT) do not indicate long enough for other drivers to react and I have had bus drivers pull out while I am beside them who were certainly not indicating when I started to pass them.

However, even if the bus driver had initially been at fault, I reckon the four wheel drive owner has lost all credibility by not stopping to exchange details when they collide with the side of a school bus, then deliberately rear ending the bus and then driving off still without exchanging details.

The only curious aspect to this is why did the bus driver not stop to at least try to exchange details with the four wheel drive owner immediately after they first collided. Presumably he knew that the bus and four wheel drive side swiped each other or it wouldn’t have been in the above release.

Exactly my thoughts. +1

dpm said :

Lastly, I’m not jealous of, nor hate 4WDs. I’m just finding it interesting reading people justify their need for one (They don’t even need to justify their choice to anyone, but they volunteer to!). Your justification was pretty good in the end, except how much stuff DO you need to carry to go swimming in the brindies?? Geez, 8 seater (for 6) plus purpose-designed roof-racks with caged sides for the towels and esky etc? 😉 Hahahaha!
Seriously though, for me, I couldn’t afford a ‘Landie’ if I wanted one! Sticker price, fuel costs, tyre costs, servicing costs, heavier-car rego costs etc…. I’d have to sell the house, get a better job, or find another way to get my hands on one.
As i’m poorer than you, if I just needed a 4WD to go to the Brindies a few times in summer, I’d seriously consider just renting one on those days/weekends, and having a cheaper-to-own car for the other 39,000km (out of 40,000km) I’d drive it a year.
The cheapest Landie I can see on carsales is $60k (without purpose-built roofracks), and i’m pretty sure it would cost ~$1,000 more a year to run than a ~$38k wagon or somesuch. Then, quickly looking on Avis, I can rent a Pajero (not a Landie though) for $285 for a weekend, Sat morning – Monday morning.
I think it would work out better for me to do it that way over the 10 year life of the car, but i’d need to check those prices properly! Anyway, horses for courses (and you don’t really need to justify your choice in anything to anyone!).

There actually isnt much in the running costs if you buy carefully. Commodores & vans are now all typically over 1500kg which puts them into the same registration territory as a 4WD:

http://www.rego.act.gov.au/registrations/regofee.htm

Fuel consumption is a myth also if you buy a diesel version. Yep, a V8 petrol in a Landcruiser will suck the juice but the equivalent in a diesel will be between 10 &15lt/100. This is a worst case scenario with many of the current crop of common rail 4 cylinder diesels using between 8 & 12l/100.You can look here:

http://www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au/GVGPublicUI/SearchResults.aspx

Disclaimer: I could not compare the Prado as it would not come up in the search.

Tyre and brake cost for a 4WD is more expensive but they generally last longer, I was getting 80-90,000km from my tyres on my last Patrol & the same from the brake pads. It also had 430,000km on the clock when it was written off (hail storm), most passenger cars would have had to have had an engine change by then.

Basic servicing is more expensive as a diesel will take more oil.

I find the suggestion to buy a Tarago, Iload, Volkswagen van as its better for commuting a bit silly really as they all weigh close to 2 tonnes (1725-1980kg) & have a dimension of 4.7m v the Pathfinder has a weight of 2.1 -2.28 and a length of 4.8m. They really dont handle much different either, this is where the Commodore excels & fuel consumption is similar.

Yup a 4WD is more expensive to run in some respects but its not the evil being that people make them out to be.

If you dont regularly do off road trips & I am not talking driving to Tumut on the back road, maybe once a year you want to go to Bendethera camping then by all means hire one but we use ours all the time (the new one was dirty on the first weekend we bought it).

I really only bit because of the stereotyping but I bite just as hard when someone has a go at pushies as well.

dpm said :

The cheapest Landie I can see on carsales is $60k (without purpose-built roofracks), and i’m pretty sure it would cost ~$1,000 more a year to run than a ~$38k wagon or somesuch. Then, quickly looking on Avis, I can rent a Pajero (not a Landie though) for $285 for a weekend, Sat morning – Monday morning.

You actually make a very good point with this argument.

I hope you checked the small print though, often vehicle rentals specifically exclude unsealed roads. Even for four wheel drives.

The Antichrist said :

dpm said :

Yeah, we like to go camping in the hols once a year too, so we got a Winnebago and I drive it to work in town the other 51 weeks of the year! (hehehe, sorry, I couldn’t resist!)

Anyway, shouldn’t your statement: “2 adults + 4 kids = 4WD for this family.” be:
“2 adults + 4 kids = large tranport vehicle for this family.”?
Surely the bit about the trips up to the brindies later on “= 4WD for this family”, not just because you have 4 kids?

A Landie is a large transport vehicle – you can carry a lot more stuff on purpose-designed roof-racks with caged sides, than you can stuff into the boot of a Tarago…..the bit about going up to the Brindies just illustrates that having a 4WD allows us to go to way more places than a Crummydore or a nerd-mover van. 8-seater 4WD’s are a much better option if you like a bit of flexibility in your holiday destinations.

Predictable 4WD-haters just annoy me.

Hey, chillax. I was just trying to clarify your post where first of all you said:
1) You needed a 4WD because you had a family of 6 to carry (‘2 adults + 4 kids = 4WD for this family’. No mention of terrain at that point). Then,
2) You mentioned the only reason you didn’t drive your family of 6 up to the brindies in your commodore was because it wouln’t make it (‘Kids like going up for a swim at Flea Creek in summer. Crummydore does not go to Flea Creek’. So 6 do fit in the commodore, and this seemed to me the real reason for the 4WD, not the family of 6 as said earlier).
Call me picky, but to me the second point conflicted with the first a bit. Basically if you had just worded it as:
‘2 adults + 4 kids, who like going to the brindies in summer = 4WD for this family’, it would have made perfect sense and I wouldn’t have needed clarification! That’s all.

BTW, calling your 4WD a ‘Landie’ and a non-4WD a ‘nerd-mover’ highlights your real reasoning nicely. There was no other need to justify your choice of transport! You could have just said ‘I don’t want to drive around town in a nerd-mover’. Hahaha!

Lastly, I’m not jealous of, nor hate 4WDs. I’m just finding it interesting reading people justify their need for one (They don’t even need to justify their choice to anyone, but they volunteer to!). Your justification was pretty good in the end, except how much stuff DO you need to carry to go swimming in the brindies?? Geez, 8 seater (for 6) plus purpose-designed roof-racks with caged sides for the towels and esky etc? 😉 Hahahaha!
Seriously though, for me, I couldn’t afford a ‘Landie’ if I wanted one! Sticker price, fuel costs, tyre costs, servicing costs, heavier-car rego costs etc…. I’d have to sell the house, get a better job, or find another way to get my hands on one.
As i’m poorer than you, if I just needed a 4WD to go to the Brindies a few times in summer, I’d seriously consider just renting one on those days/weekends, and having a cheaper-to-own car for the other 39,000km (out of 40,000km) I’d drive it a year.
The cheapest Landie I can see on carsales is $60k (without purpose-built roofracks), and i’m pretty sure it would cost ~$1,000 more a year to run than a ~$38k wagon or somesuch. Then, quickly looking on Avis, I can rent a Pajero (not a Landie though) for $285 for a weekend, Sat morning – Monday morning.
I think it would work out better for me to do it that way over the 10 year life of the car, but i’d need to check those prices properly! Anyway, horses for courses (and you don’t really need to justify your choice in anything to anyone!).

dpm said :

Yeah, we like to go camping in the hols once a year too, so we got a Winnebago and I drive it to work in town the other 51 weeks of the year! (hehehe, sorry, I couldn’t resist!)

Anyway, shouldn’t your statement: “2 adults + 4 kids = 4WD for this family.” be:
“2 adults + 4 kids = large tranport vehicle for this family.”?
Surely the bit about the trips up to the brindies later on “= 4WD for this family”, not just because you have 4 kids?

A Landie is a large transport vehicle – you can carry a lot more stuff on purpose-designed roof-racks with caged sides, than you can stuff into the boot of a Tarago…..the bit about going up to the Brindies just illustrates that having a 4WD allows us to go to way more places than a Crummydore or a nerd-mover van. 8-seater 4WD’s are a much better option if you like a bit of flexibility in your holiday destinations.

Predictable 4WD-haters just annoy me.

shadow boxer said :

Then why would the police say it hit the side of the bus, someone is telling porkies and this story gets fishier all the time.

There is a word missing from the statement. “Almost”

Not fishy at all. The driver of the 4wd was interviewed and admitted full liability with no fault attributed to the bus driver. He has agreed to pay the $450 in damage repair to the bus and also cop the associated infringements.

Sarge51 said :

p1 said :

Sarge51 said :

A few people are assuming quite a lot with limited information on this forum and quite a lot of inaccuracies are being portrayed.

Ummm, you seem to have some (fact)s and lots of other info leading to (assumptions) which the rest of us don’t have. Do you have a source?

Yes I do. Straight from the driver of the bus involved and some of the students on board.

Then why would the police say it hit the side of the bus, someone is telling porkies and this story gets fishier all the time.

Sarge, that was my point in my first post, a wanker is not a wanker because he is in a 4WD. There are wankers all though society, they drive cars, buses, motor cycles, pushbikes, sip soy/mocha/cappuchino/chocolate latte’s.

They guy in the Cruiser? Probably not a wanker, he has bigger issues than that.

p1 said :

Sarge51 said :

A few people are assuming quite a lot with limited information on this forum and quite a lot of inaccuracies are being portrayed.

Ummm, you seem to have some (fact)s and lots of other info leading to (assumptions) which the rest of us don’t have. Do you have a source?

Yes I do. Straight from the driver of the bus involved and some of the students on board.

Hmmmm……… Are you sure that it wasn’t an Indian or Iraqi Aust Post Contractor trying very hard to overtake the bus so he could do his job? Instead of running late ‘again’ and then having to card his parcels?? Ummph… poor posties never win!! Allah!!!!!!!!

Sarge51 said :

A few people are assuming quite a lot with limited information on this forum and quite a lot of inaccuracies are being portrayed.

The 4wd involved was a drop side utility (fact) driven by a tradie (assumption). The bus was dropping off students at the bus stop on Hopetoun Circ which is a single lane with a solid white line (non passing). The indicator was activated 4-5 seconds prior to driving off and mirrors were checked. The 4wd was approx 50 metres behind at this stage and cars were approaching from the opposite direction. There is no evidence of a collision between the 4wd and the side of the bus during this overtaking maneuver….

Ummm, you seem to have some (fact)s and lots of other info leading to (assumptions) which the rest of us don’t have. Do you have a source?

A few people are assuming quite a lot with limited information on this forum and quite a lot of inaccuracies are being portrayed.

The 4wd involved was a drop side utility (fact) driven by a tradie (assumption). The bus was dropping off students at the bus stop on Hopetoun Circ which is a single lane with a solid white line (non passing). The indicator was activated 4-5 seconds prior to driving off and mirrors were checked. The 4wd was approx 50 metres behind at this stage and cars were approaching from the opposite direction. There is no evidence of a collision between the 4wd and the side of the bus during this overtaking maneuver. The bus turned into Schlick St and stopped at the last stop to allow the students off when it was rammed from behind. The 4wd operator appeared (assumption) to be targeting the rear window with a long pole tied to his vehicle but missed and hit the top of the bus chassis instead. The driver also impacted with the rear of the bus with his bullbar. Damage to the rear of the bus was sustained but no injuries with the passengers of the bus. The 4wd then reversed back up, drove past the bus and then a u-turn to drive off in the opposite direction. Considering that it was raining, a school bus, oncoming traffic and a single lane non passing road, is there in doubt on the stupidity of the 4wd operator.

I am not tarring any 4wd operators with the same brush but people like this should not be on the road. It could easily have been any other type of vehicle, so the type is irrelevant.

With all these facts, it is quite clear that Action Buses is not to blame for the incident. As someone mentioned earlier, alcohol may have had something to do with it but that is unable to be proven.

dpm said :

Anyway, shouldn’t your statement: “2 adults + 4 kids = 4WD for this family.” be:
“2 adults + 4 kids = large tranport vehicle for this family.”?

When I was a younger kid, my parents took the “2 adults + 4 kids = large tranport vehicle for this family.” route, and bought a 8 seater van.

When the time came to upgrade, they looked at four wheel drives, concluded that the seat in the boot necessary to carry six teenagers in seatbelt meant that there was no luggage space, and bought another van. A four wheel drive one. 🙂

What about white delivery van drivers? I’ve encountered some rather interesting manoeuvers….

qbngeek said :

Erg0 said :

Nonsense, my fiance bought a Prius last week and it hasn’t affected my opinion of you planet-killing lesser life forms one jot.

Of course if you actually cared about the environment you would have got a Polo or Golf Bluemotion which has better economy, lower emissions and does less damage to the environment during production…plus they are cheaper.

Unfortunately they don’t carry the same smugness factor.

I like how you assume that I had some sort of input into the decision-making process.

In any case, neither of us is what you’d call an environmentalist, if anything it was probably the “cool” factor of the hybrid tech that had the largest emotional pull.

The Antichrist said :

Jim Jones said :

……4WDs are for going places that other vehicles can’t go. They’re not for dropping off the kids at school, driving to work or going to the mall…….

The Antichrist thinks – jealous much Jim Jones ?

2 adults + 4 kids = 4WD for this family. Kids need to be dropped off at school. Kids like going up for a swim at Flea Creek in summer. Crummydore does not go to Flea Creek……4WD does in comfort.

4WD haters are predictable & pathetic. Get over your petty jealousies.

Glad no kids were hurt in the incident.

Yeah, we like to go camping in the hols once a year too, so we got a Winnebago and I drive it to work in town the other 51 weeks of the year! (hehehe, sorry, I couldn’t resist!)

Anyway, shouldn’t your statement: “2 adults + 4 kids = 4WD for this family.” be:
“2 adults + 4 kids = large tranport vehicle for this family.”?
Surely the bit about the trips up to the brindies later on “= 4WD for this family”, not just because you have 4 kids?

CHW said :

Huh. Sadly, based on several clues (location, time of day, style of driving) I predict the driver will be identified as …

… another Mum On The School Run.

DO NOT mess with MOTSR.

She has multiple children to ferry to multiple locations, usually has a timetable calculated down to the second, and boy howdy, has she had a lot of high-end coffee in the last two hours.

Half-way through the year… maybe the School Run Stress has peaked?

Mum o’clock is truly a terrible time to drive a bus.

I have definitely been *next* to buses that have stopped (ie, past the rear bumper) when the buses flick their indicator and have moved directly into me.

Yes, I give way to indicating buses, however just flicking your f*cking indicator on and moving directly into flowing traffic is hardly conducive now, is it?

I’d suggest they broaden the search to include the Lexus variant, especially after seeing the performance of the knob jockey I got a jump on courtesy of a nicely timed roll-through – how dare a vehicle lesser than theirs get in front?

Huh. Sadly, based on several clues (location, time of day, style of driving) I predict the driver will be identified as …

… another Mum On The School Run.

DO NOT mess with MOTSR.

She has multiple children to ferry to multiple locations, usually has a timetable calculated down to the second, and boy howdy, has she had a lot of high-end coffee in the last two hours.

Half-way through the year… maybe the School Run Stress has peaked?

alaninoz said :

Classified said :

If you want to drive through some mud or snow regularly, get an AWD wagon like a Subaru, for example.

+1. Don’t know about mud, but in the snow they’re great. Used to drive one in the US when, in winter, I was doing a fair bit of driving in the snow. Never had a problem, unlike lots of the SUVs and 4×4 pick-ups.

I have a current year model Subaru, and have had it in both snowy and muddy conditions, and it has always been really good. We only have one child, so don’t need a full size vehicle.

Jim Jones said :

……4WDs are for going places that other vehicles can’t go. They’re not for dropping off the kids at school, driving to work or going to the mall…….

The Antichrist thinks – jealous much Jim Jones ?

2 adults + 4 kids = 4WD for this family. Kids need to be dropped off at school. Kids like going up for a swim at Flea Creek in summer. Crummydore does not go to Flea Creek……4WD does in comfort.

4WD haters are predictable & pathetic. Get over your petty jealousies.

Glad no kids were hurt in the incident.

Jim Jones said :

hotwasabee said :

Jim Jones said :

EvanJames said :

KB1971 said :

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

My feet have been to McIntyres Hut, with me on top of them. Not sure the desire to drive to remote spots occasionally is valid justification for a large vehicle with a 4WD transmission.

Couldn’t agree more. What a crap reason to drive around the suburbs in a light truck: “I might want to go to McIntyres Hut one day, and I’m couldn’t be arsed walking”.

Keep ’em coming though, they’re funny.

Because wanting to keep my family safe when crossing a flooded causeway “on the way to my home”is hilarious!

Of course, a white Commodore might also make it.

Yeah, I can’t count the amount of times I’ve had to cross a flooded causeway on my way home in Canberra.

Wow… cause I just have to live in Canberra don’t I? You just can’t fathom that some people might need a 4wd that don’t live “in the outback”? I’m just in it for the kicks and my +10 bus ramming ability.

Low profile tires on a 4WD = boxster with a bull bar = fktard

Classified said :

If you want to drive through some mud or snow regularly, get an AWD wagon like a Subaru, for example.

+1. Don’t know about mud, but in the snow they’re great. Used to drive one in the US when, in winter, I was doing a fair bit of driving in the snow. Never had a problem, unlike lots of the SUVs and 4×4 pick-ups.

Erg0 said :

Another point worth mentioning: the lack of viable alternatives to four wheel drives (if we accept that it exists) came about because people stopped buying the alternatives and started driving four wheel drives instead. The car manufacturers aren’t conspiring to make people buy a specific kind of car, they just give the people what they want.

This is what i’m interested in! It’s all about supply and demand, but with this, i’m not 100% sure that both sides weren’t to blame somewhat for the 4WD craze. In Aus, I think the makers pre-emptively got lots in as the US were in the middle of their SUV phase, and that helped fuel high sales. Of course, I could be well wrong. I reckon someone could do a PhD on the rise (and hopefully, decline) of city 4WD sales! 🙂 Just as thrilling as many of the other PhDs out there! Hahahaha!

alaninoz said :

dpm said :

Yep. It’s at the stage where you can’t buy many cars that fit 5+ people without it being a 4WD.

Toyota Tarago, Mazda CX-9, Kia Grand Carnival, Hyundai iMax…

And people should do some research on the safety of 4wds to the driver/passengers and to others before assuming they are safer.

I’m not bagging 4wds, just pointing out that there may be better options. As I said in a previous post, there are good reasons for some people to own or drive one. Fashion, or being a wanker, isn’t one of them though.

As I mentioned, there are some decent non-4WD options now coming back into the market, like the last few in your post. These weren’t around that many years back. And i’m not buying a tarago at $52k for the base model!
I know a bit about this as I’m the last person who will ever buy a 4WD (and I’ve never had one – not needed in Canberra) and I’m waiting in hope for some more 2WD options out there to replace my wagon when it bites the dust! A couple of the newer ones you mentioned look promising (i.e reasonable price and have required specs) for when that happens.
I was just pointing out that the car market went through a phase where every family car besides a sedan was basically a 4WD (and many sedans were 4WD too!).
I too don’t think that’s necessarily a reason you had to buy a 4WD, i’m just saying a lot of people seemed to get into the trend of doing so as the showrooms were full of them…
It seemed to me to be a self-fuelling cycle; they were trendy (esp. at the start) so they made lots of them, people bought them, so they made more and more models until they saturated the market and soccer moms etc only thought ‘4WD’ when they went to buy a car to take the kids to school in.
But as I said, that appears to be declining now! Fingers crossed…. Than again, Toyota had the Avensis, which also looked good, but they stopped importing it last year!
As I also said, the 4WD/SUV trend in the US was the deathknell for a few of their car companies over there. They made lots and lots, then when fuel prices went up, and jobs went down, people stopped buying them and the car compaines went bust as they didn’t have any other types of car to sell. They then all got blamed for being out of touch with what the consumers wanted.
Anyway, at the end of the day, my pet peeve with most of them is they use a lot more fuel than a similar 2WD would to do the same job around town.

Erg0 said :

Nonsense, my fiance bought a Prius last week and it hasn’t affected my opinion of you planet-killing lesser life forms one jot.

Of course if you actually cared about the environment you would have got a Polo or Golf Bluemotion which has better economy, lower emissions and does less damage to the environment during production…plus they are cheaper.

Unfortunately they don’t carry the same smugness factor.

Erg0 said :

Another point worth mentioning: the lack of viable alternatives to four wheel drives (if we accept that it exists) came about because people stopped buying the alternatives and started driving four wheel drives instead. The car manufacturers aren’t conspiring to make people buy a specific kind of car, they just give the people what they want.

Nail on the head. Remember how big a Falcon wagon is?

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

I wana Bus!, I wana Bus! I wana Bus.. A 4WD one any way. They’ll make me bigger that any one else.

Like this?

Another point worth mentioning: the lack of viable alternatives to four wheel drives (if we accept that it exists) came about because people stopped buying the alternatives and started driving four wheel drives instead. The car manufacturers aren’t conspiring to make people buy a specific kind of car, they just give the people what they want.

KB1971 said :

Jim Jones said :

As an earlier poster said: “Toyota Tarago, Mazda CX-9, Kia Grand Carnival, Hyundai iMax…”

But people are ‘forced’ to buy 4WDs?

I dont know if you are actually reading my posts. I did mention those but they are just as big as any 4WD’s around, no difference really other than another diff & gearbox. If you dont want or need one of those, there is no other choice is there?

Im out, you are right jim 🙂

So you’re arguing that Taragos are just the same as 4WDs anyway and that people are buying 4WDs because they have no choice … apart from Toyota Tarago, Mazda CX-9, Kia Grand Carnival, Hyundai iMax, etc, which they might not want?

Let’s simplify it:

a) Big people movers are the same as 4WDs
b) People have no choice (apart from a stack of other things that they can choose from)

Both of these are utter bollocks.

Jim Jones said :

As an earlier poster said: “Toyota Tarago, Mazda CX-9, Kia Grand Carnival, Hyundai iMax…”

But people are ‘forced’ to buy 4WDs?

I dont know if you are actually reading my posts. I did mention those but they are just as big as any 4WD’s around, no difference really other than another diff & gearbox. If you dont want or need one of those, there is no other choice is there?

Im out, you are right jim 🙂

I had no idea that all these mums dropping their kids at soccer practise in the 4WD were doing so just in case they had to cross a flooded causeway on their way home.

It makes so much sense now and I thoroughly apologise for labelling them as idiots.

People are not forced to buy 4WDs. There are a vehicles that range from medium (e.g. Kia Rondo) to full size (e.g. Toyota Tarago) that fit the bill of 7 seats plus luggage space fine. Vehicles like the Tarago V6 are also far quicker and more comfortable than a 4WD. If you want to drive through some mud or snow regularly, get an AWD wagon like a Subaru, for example. You often have more flexibility with moving seating around inside a non-4WD people mover as well.

Non 4WD vehicles are generally more fuel efficient and better to drive anyway. I know quite a few people who drive 4WD/SUV vehicles, and the majority never see unsealed road, much less conditions that actually require 4WD.

Tax them back to the farms and the mines.

I wana Bus!, I wana Bus! I wana Bus.. A 4WD one any way. They’ll make me bigger that any one else.

hotwasabee said :

Jim Jones said :

EvanJames said :

KB1971 said :

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

My feet have been to McIntyres Hut, with me on top of them. Not sure the desire to drive to remote spots occasionally is valid justification for a large vehicle with a 4WD transmission.

Couldn’t agree more. What a crap reason to drive around the suburbs in a light truck: “I might want to go to McIntyres Hut one day, and I’m couldn’t be arsed walking”.

Keep ’em coming though, they’re funny.

Because wanting to keep my family safe when crossing a flooded causeway “on the way to my home”is hilarious!

Of course, a white Commodore might also make it.

Yeah, I can’t count the amount of times I’ve had to cross a flooded causeway on my way home in Canberra.

KB1971 said :

Jim Jones said :

KB1971 said :

EvanJames said :

KB1971 said :

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

My feet have been to McIntyres Hut, with me on top of them. Not sure the desire to drive to remote spots occasionally is valid justification for a large vehicle with a 4WD transmission.

Just poking my tongue out at the comment.

Not in your mind but it is for others, freedom of choice.

One of the biggest things these days though is the fact you cannot buy a real station wagon (as mentioned earlier) for a family or even a Camry sise wagon for that matter. People are forced into things like Nissan Xtrails, Holden Captiva’s & such & all they are using them for is a big station wagon, not an AWD vehicle they drive up a muddy driveway everyday with.

Also seating capacity.The only car size wagon that you can get that has 7 seats is a Honda Odessey, everything else is is a large bus type vehicle & usually petrol powered so its no different to owning a 4WD anyway for my money.

How in all hell did you go from the ‘freedom of choice’ argument to ‘people are forced to buy 4WDs’ thing without dying of ironic shock?

Because people can either choose to buy one but if they need six seats to house the family but cant afford the a Honda Odessey then what do they buy? You can’t delinieate the two?

As an earlier poster said: “Toyota Tarago, Mazda CX-9, Kia Grand Carnival, Hyundai iMax…”

But people are ‘forced’ to buy 4WDs?

p1 said :

alaninoz said :

johnboy said :

And the day a Prius rams a bus you can be sure we’ll be stereotyping prius owners.

Don’t have to wait until then – damn holier-than-thou, so-called green Prius drivers!

Don’t forget the clouds of smug they produce.

Nonsense, my fiance bought a Prius last week and it hasn’t affected my opinion of you planet-killing lesser life forms one jot.

Jim Jones said :

KB1971 said :

EvanJames said :

KB1971 said :

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

My feet have been to McIntyres Hut, with me on top of them. Not sure the desire to drive to remote spots occasionally is valid justification for a large vehicle with a 4WD transmission.

Just poking my tongue out at the comment.

Not in your mind but it is for others, freedom of choice.

One of the biggest things these days though is the fact you cannot buy a real station wagon (as mentioned earlier) for a family or even a Camry sise wagon for that matter. People are forced into things like Nissan Xtrails, Holden Captiva’s & such & all they are using them for is a big station wagon, not an AWD vehicle they drive up a muddy driveway everyday with.

Also seating capacity.The only car size wagon that you can get that has 7 seats is a Honda Odessey, everything else is is a large bus type vehicle & usually petrol powered so its no different to owning a 4WD anyway for my money.

How in all hell did you go from the ‘freedom of choice’ argument to ‘people are forced to buy 4WDs’ thing without dying of ironic shock?

Because people can either choose to buy one but if they need six seats to house the family but cant afford the a Honda Odessey then what do they buy? You can’t delinieate the two?

alaninoz said :

johnboy said :

And the day a Prius rams a bus you can be sure we’ll be stereotyping prius owners.

Don’t have to wait until then – damn holier-than-thou, so-called green Prius drivers!

Don’t forget the clouds of smug they produce.

Jim Jones said :

EvanJames said :

KB1971 said :

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

My feet have been to McIntyres Hut, with me on top of them. Not sure the desire to drive to remote spots occasionally is valid justification for a large vehicle with a 4WD transmission.

Couldn’t agree more. What a crap reason to drive around the suburbs in a light truck: “I might want to go to McIntyres Hut one day, and I’m couldn’t be arsed walking”.

Keep ’em coming though, they’re funny.

Because wanting to keep my family safe when crossing a flooded causeway “on the way to my home”is hilarious!

Of course, a white Commodore might also make it.

KB1971 said :

EvanJames said :

KB1971 said :

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

My feet have been to McIntyres Hut, with me on top of them. Not sure the desire to drive to remote spots occasionally is valid justification for a large vehicle with a 4WD transmission.

Just poking my tongue out at the comment.

Not in your mind but it is for others, freedom of choice.

One of the biggest things these days though is the fact you cannot buy a real station wagon (as mentioned earlier) for a family or even a Camry sise wagon for that matter. People are forced into things like Nissan Xtrails, Holden Captiva’s & such & all they are using them for is a big station wagon, not an AWD vehicle they drive up a muddy driveway everyday with.

Also seating capacity.The only car size wagon that you can get that has 7 seats is a Honda Odessey, everything else is is a large bus type vehicle & usually petrol powered so its no different to owning a 4WD anyway for my money.

How in all hell did you go from the ‘freedom of choice’ argument to ‘people are forced to buy 4WDs’ thing without dying of ironic shock?

EvanJames said :

KB1971 said :

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

My feet have been to McIntyres Hut, with me on top of them. Not sure the desire to drive to remote spots occasionally is valid justification for a large vehicle with a 4WD transmission.

Just poking my tongue out at the comment.

Not in your mind but it is for others, freedom of choice.

One of the biggest things these days though is the fact you cannot buy a real station wagon (as mentioned earlier) for a family or even a Camry sise wagon for that matter. People are forced into things like Nissan Xtrails, Holden Captiva’s & such & all they are using them for is a big station wagon, not an AWD vehicle they drive up a muddy driveway everyday with.

Also seating capacity.The only car size wagon that you can get that has 7 seats is a Honda Odessey, everything else is is a large bus type vehicle & usually petrol powered so its no different to owning a 4WD anyway for my money.

johnboy said :

And the day a Prius rams a bus you can be sure we’ll be stereotyping prius owners.

Don’t have to wait until then – damn holier-than-thou, so-called green Prius drivers!

Jim Jones said :

The post is about the police “seeking witnesses to a road rage incident” in which a 4WD rammed a busload full of schoolchildren, and you think that ‘the bus tried to do a runner’?!?

WTF?

In the context of the whole incident, not unreasonable. As I, and others have mentioned, why didn’t the bus driver stop after being whacked in the side? Not trying to excuse the 4wd driver, who is obviously antisocial at the least.

dpm said :

Yep. It’s at the stage where you can’t buy many cars that fit 5+ people without it being a 4WD.

Toyota Tarago, Mazda CX-9, Kia Grand Carnival, Hyundai iMax…

And people should do some research on the safety of 4wds to the driver/passengers and to others before assuming they are safer.

I’m not bagging 4wds, just pointing out that there may be better options. As I said in a previous post, there are good reasons for some people to own or drive one. Fashion, or being a wanker, isn’t one of them though.

EvanJames said :

KB1971 said :

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

My feet have been to McIntyres Hut, with me on top of them. Not sure the desire to drive to remote spots occasionally is valid justification for a large vehicle with a 4WD transmission.

Couldn’t agree more. What a crap reason to drive around the suburbs in a light truck: “I might want to go to McIntyres Hut one day, and I’m couldn’t be arsed walking”.

Keep ’em coming though, they’re funny.

Jim Jones said :

KB1971 said :

Jim Jones said :

If the tax breaks on 4WDs were removed (they come in at a lower rate of sales tax than normal cars because they’re classified as ‘light trucks’, which are commercial and rural vehicles), then they’d (hopefully) be priced out of the urban market. Then you could institute tax refunds for people who actually needed them (for commercial reasons, or because they live in ‘rural Orstraya’).

But sadly, the culture of driving a fecking great truck around the suburbs of Australia is well entrenched and would be hard to move away from now.

Totally incorrect, most AWD/4WD vehicle are classed as passenger cars for the purpose of meeting the national standards (ADR’s) & thus are subject to luxury car tax. GST also applies.

A small amount of passenger based 4WD such as Nissan Patrol & Toyota Landcruiser are classed as commercial but these are mostly sold to mining companies, government departments ect. Of course all utes are commercial vehicles for which the only tax they are exempt from is LCT.

The reclassification occurred pretty late in the piece though, didn’t it? There was a period of time when Paul Keating was railing against the stupidity of 4WDs on urban roads and was talking about reeling the tax back to prevent them becoming ubiqitous on urban roads (which they now are).

I’ll have to look at it again – if I’m wrong, my sincere apologies. I’d amend my previous statement to be: “They should be taxed out of existence (with rebates for legitimate use)”.

Passenger cars have to be certified to the ADR’s for a higher safety rating (depending on the weight & drivers seat height + they are required to have child restraints). Also the ADR’s have a specific calculation on how to classify what a commercial vehicle is, it goes by GVM & seating capacity. Basically a 5 seater large 4WD will not be able to be a passenger vehicle as it does not have enough seats, this is one of the reasons that the passenger 4WD’s have 7 & 8 seats in them but then thats the trade off.

I just had a look at the ATO website & it seems that LCT does apply to vehicles that carry less than two tonnes of load, it doesnt seem to differenciate for 4WD or commercial:

http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/distributor.aspx?menuid=0&doc=/content/00205487.htm&page=3#P44_2237

I have learnt something today.

KB1971 said :

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

Being too lazy to hike to McIntyres Hut is not an excuse for commuting to work in a 2T death machine.

It’s bigger than a car, it’s harder to manoeuvre than a car, it’s harder to stop than a car. It’s a greater risk to pedestrians than a car, and not being used for a purpose other than being a car. Why is it in the city?

KB1971 said :

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

My feet have been to McIntyres Hut, with me on top of them. Not sure the desire to drive to remote spots occasionally is valid justification for a large vehicle with a 4WD transmission.

damien haas said :

PBO said :

“In a dystopian future Australia, law & order has begun to break down. Berserk gang member, Crawford “Nightrider” Montizano, has escaped police custody and is attempting to outrun the Main Force Patrol (MFP) in a stolen Landcruiser. Though he manages to elude his initial pursuers, the MFP’s top bus pursuit man, Max Rockatansky, then engages the less-skilled Nightrider in a high-speed bus chase, resulting in the death of Nightrider in a less than fiery crash.”

I like my version of events better.

So in this scenario the ACTION driver is Max Rockatansky ?

Indeed, otherwise that little scenario would not work as well.

KB1971 said :

Jim Jones said :

If the tax breaks on 4WDs were removed (they come in at a lower rate of sales tax than normal cars because they’re classified as ‘light trucks’, which are commercial and rural vehicles), then they’d (hopefully) be priced out of the urban market. Then you could institute tax refunds for people who actually needed them (for commercial reasons, or because they live in ‘rural Orstraya’).

But sadly, the culture of driving a fecking great truck around the suburbs of Australia is well entrenched and would be hard to move away from now.

Totally incorrect, most AWD/4WD vehicle are classed as passenger cars for the purpose of meeting the national standards (ADR’s) & thus are subject to luxury car tax. GST also applies.

A small amount of passenger based 4WD such as Nissan Patrol & Toyota Landcruiser are classed as commercial but these are mostly sold to mining companies, government departments ect. Of course all utes are commercial vehicles for which the only tax they are exempt from is LCT.

The reclassification occurred pretty late in the piece though, didn’t it? There was a period of time when Paul Keating was railing against the stupidity of 4WDs on urban roads and was talking about reeling the tax back to prevent them becoming ubiqitous on urban roads (which they now are).

I’ll have to look at it again – if I’m wrong, my sincere apologies. I’d amend my previous statement to be: “They should be taxed out of existence (with rebates for legitimate use)”.

Jim Jones said :

Also, lolz at all the 4WD owners going nuts frantically justifying themselves.

Thanks guys, you’ve made my day!

Trolling, damnit, sucked me in………..

Probably an angry parent on a school pick up, that didn’t like being squeezed out by the bus, instead of giving way to the bus like we should do. But then again, we seem to be all ways in a rush these days.

C’mon folks – stop defending the beige 4WD driver. The law is quite clear on this — bus has right off way, car must give way to buses pulling out/indicating, if car doesn’t it’s at fault. I know many Canberrans recklessly disregard this rule, but it is as it is. No ambiguity whatsoever, and not being able to brake well because your car is supersized is no excuse in the eyes of the law. Unsatisfied with being wrong once, he rammed the bus. A bus full of schoolkids. Can this lowlife get any lower?What if the bus crashed as a result? In some parts of the US this kind of behaviour is punishable by death, well vigilante retribution from a posse of parents at least.

Jim Jones said :

If the tax breaks on 4WDs were removed (they come in at a lower rate of sales tax than normal cars because they’re classified as ‘light trucks’, which are commercial and rural vehicles), then they’d (hopefully) be priced out of the urban market. Then you could institute tax refunds for people who actually needed them (for commercial reasons, or because they live in ‘rural Orstraya’).

But sadly, the culture of driving a fecking great truck around the suburbs of Australia is well entrenched and would be hard to move away from now.

Totally incorrect, most AWD/4WD vehicle are classed as passenger cars for the purpose of meeting the national standards (ADR’s) & thus are subject to luxury car tax. GST also applies.

A small amount of passenger based 4WD such as Nissan Patrol & Toyota Landcruiser are classed as commercial but these are mostly sold to mining companies, government departments ect. Of course all utes are commercial vehicles for which the only tax they are exempt from is LCT.

Also, lolz at all the 4WD owners going nuts frantically justifying themselves.

Thanks guys, you’ve made my day!

Jim Jones said :

Perhaps you could explain to us all how someone who lives in Canberra needs a 4WD? I’ve travelled widely around the surrounding districts from which people commute to Canberra, and I haven’t come across any terrain that a Commodore couldn’t easily negotiate.

So your Commodores been to McIntyres hut then?

Eppo said :

It’s funny that people are complaining about the size and weight of 4WDs, but don’t stop and think how large and un-necessary even a Falcon or Commodore is for most.

A Falcon or Commodore comes in at around 1800kgs these days. Mostly driven by people with no passengers, or so it seems on my morning commute…

Bit of a difference between a large car or station wagon and a vehicle that is so big and heavy that it’s technically considered to be a ‘light truck’.

4WDs are for going places that other vehicles can’t go. They’re not for dropping off the kids at school, driving to work or going to the mall.

Getting a bit off topic but if you did a survey I wouldn’t be surprised to find that a majority of owners living in the ACT bought their four wheel drives because they felt safer on the road (because they were as big as or at least closer in size to other cars around them), because they couldn’t find a two wheel drive car with as much interior space, so they can see over the top of traffic around them and/or because they go off road or tow something heavy once or twice a year.

To each their own I suppose but none of these excuses seem to me like really sound reasons to own one.

Yep. It’s at the stage where you can’t buy many cars that fit 5+ people without it being a 4WD. All the manufacturers are kinda implicated in this trend. If you go into a showroom and want a car for a family with 3 kids (plus room to carry a pram/luggage etc) there’s not many other options! I think the 4WD/SUV trend started in America, and then people there went off the big SUVs over there and all the car manufacturers went bust for selling cars that all of a sudden ‘no one wanted’.
Having said that, i think the peak is over here in Aus too. You can almost get a good-sized vehicle that ISN’T a SUV/4WD (or is at least a 2WD version of one of them).
It’s such a pity they all stopped selling decent station wagons – they rock! You can get the weird commodore version, which is like a decent-sized station wagon with a chopped roof to make it more funky, but basically useless for carrying stuff.

It’s funny that people are complaining about the size and weight of 4WDs, but don’t stop and think how large and un-necessary even a Falcon or Commodore is for most.

A Falcon or Commodore comes in at around 1800kgs these days. Mostly driven by people with no passengers, or so it seems on my morning commute…

Everyone, including bus drivers, are supposed to indicate for a mandatory period of time – I think it’s 3 seconds from memory –

*5* seconds actually, unless there’s an intersection within the 5 second period, which means you indicate as soon as you pass that intersection

PBO said :

“In a dystopian future Australia, law & order has begun to break down. Berserk gang member, Crawford “Nightrider” Montizano, has escaped police custody and is attempting to outrun the Main Force Patrol (MFP) in a stolen Landcruiser. Though he manages to elude his initial pursuers, the MFP’s top bus pursuit man, Max Rockatansky, then engages the less-skilled Nightrider in a high-speed bus chase, resulting in the death of Nightrider in a less than fiery crash.”

I like my version of events better.

So in this scenario the ACTION driver is Max Rockatansky ?

Getting a bit off topic but if you did a survey I wouldn’t be surprised to find that a majority of owners living in the ACT bought their four wheel drives because they felt safer on the road (because they were as big as or at least closer in size to other cars around them), because they couldn’t find a two wheel drive car with as much interior space, so they can see over the top of traffic around them and/or because they go off road or tow something heavy once or twice a year.

To each their own I suppose but none of these excuses seem to me like really sound reasons to own one.

If the tax breaks on 4WDs were removed (they come in at a lower rate of sales tax than normal cars because they’re classified as ‘light trucks’, which are commercial and rural vehicles), then they’d (hopefully) be priced out of the urban market. Then you could institute tax refunds for people who actually needed them (for commercial reasons, or because they live in ‘rural Orstraya’).

But sadly, the culture of driving a fecking great truck around the suburbs of Australia is well entrenched and would be hard to move away from now.

Jim Jones said :

hotwasabee said :

Ben_Dover said :

MightyJoe said :

Also. To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD?

Never felt the need too, I have a more than adequately sized penis, no delusions of my living in back of Bourke, and weigh in at under 150 kilos. But thanks for asking…

Oh yeah, because people who stereotype and involve body parts must really be a sophisticated member of society. Have you ever considered that maybe people from Canberra can actually travel to the back of Bourke?

Besides, why is road rage incident against children into a 4wd bashing exercise? Even a Prius is capable of attacking a bus.

Perhaps you could explain to us all how someone who lives in Canberra needs a 4WD? I’ve travelled widely around the surrounding districts from which people commute to Canberra, and I haven’t come across any terrain that a Commodore couldn’t easily negotiate.

JJ, I’m sure that’s true with you and your Commodore. With enough momentum and road damage, I could probably get a scooter anywhere in Canberra surrounds too. The fact of it is, you don’t. Of course you can get a Commodore from Capitan’s Flat to Araluen. I know people do because of the nice dirty ruts left in the road as they floor it up slippery hills. What about the number of properties that can be completely blocked off by causeways. I’ve also seen Commodore’s make it across these too, but I wouldn’t go as far as to put my family at danger by doing so. Then we could also mention the dangers associated with animal strikes on country roads and I’m sure we could talk all day.

This isn’t even to mention that maybe people would like to leave the hotels and bitumen for a holiday. My 4wd triples as a farm vehicle, a rescue vehicle and a holiday camper as well as a commuter. Yes I should by a Commodore just to drive around town, but I don’t… I can’t afford it.

Now I’m not defending “city 4wds” because I get lumped with them every time this topic gets raised but to say there’s no “terrain that a Commodore couldn’t easily negotiate” is a bit of an overstatement.

ram a bus full of kids … what a hero. Trying to overtake on Hopetoun … d***head.

If you can’t get there in a Commodore, it ain’t worth going!

Jim Jones said :

Perhaps you could explain to us all how someone who lives in Canberra needs a 4WD? I’ve travelled widely around the surrounding districts from which people commute to Canberra, and I haven’t come across any terrain that a Commodore couldn’t easily negotiate.

There’s a growing number of city-based people who firmly believe that you need a 4WD to drive on anything that’s not bitumen. I’m not making this up. Dirt road? Quick, activate full 4WD pow-war!

When I was a lot younger, many roads around here were dirt. Heck, Majura Road was dirt until the 80s. And the only 4WDs you could get in the 60s and 70s was those creaky Landrovers, everyone bush-bashed and dragged horse floats with ordinary cars.

Jim Jones said :

hotwasabee said :

Ben_Dover said :

MightyJoe said :

Also. To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD?

Never felt the need too, I have a more than adequately sized penis, no delusions of my living in back of Bourke, and weigh in at under 150 kilos. But thanks for asking…

Oh yeah, because people who stereotype and involve body parts must really be a sophisticated member of society. Have you ever considered that maybe people from Canberra can actually travel to the back of Bourke?

Besides, why is road rage incident against children into a 4wd bashing exercise? Even a Prius is capable of attacking a bus.

Perhaps you could explain to us all how someone who lives in Canberra needs a 4WD? I’ve travelled widely around the surrounding districts from which people commute to Canberra, and I haven’t come across any terrain that a Commodore couldn’t easily negotiate.

I would agree agree that most terrain around Canberra is easy to get through. I can even get through the tougher stuff in the mountains with my Outlander.

However I have owned, and will purchase for my next car, a 4WD. My family and I do a lot of camping and tow a 1.8 tonne camper trailer (can’t do that safely with a commodore, or an outlander for that matter which is why it has been temporarily replaced). We also make regular (every 5-6 weeks) trips to remote areas that you couldn’t get to in a Commodore, and a yearly 3 week camping trip to various places that I would never take a sedan.

I will agree that most 4WDs in Canberra are a waste of space and a just school-mum cars that never see a dirt road, let alone going ‘off-road’. I am the first one to agree that there should be a system that 4WDs are only driven by those that will use them in the manner they are intended to be used, ie not tradies or school run cars.

Jim Jones said :

Perhaps you could explain to us all how someone who lives in Canberra needs a 4WD? I’ve travelled widely around the surrounding districts from which people commute to Canberra, and I haven’t come across any terrain that a Commodore couldn’t easily negotiate.

You clearly are not trying hard enough.

“In a dystopian future Australia, law & order has begun to break down. Berserk gang member, Crawford “Nightrider” Montizano, has escaped police custody and is attempting to outrun the Main Force Patrol (MFP) in a stolen Landcruiser. Though he manages to elude his initial pursuers, the MFP’s top bus pursuit man, Max Rockatansky, then engages the less-skilled Nightrider in a high-speed bus chase, resulting in the death of Nightrider in a less than fiery crash.”

I like my version of events better.

hotwasabee said :

Ben_Dover said :

MightyJoe said :

Also. To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD?

Never felt the need too, I have a more than adequately sized penis, no delusions of my living in back of Bourke, and weigh in at under 150 kilos. But thanks for asking…

Oh yeah, because people who stereotype and involve body parts must really be a sophisticated member of society. Have you ever considered that maybe people from Canberra can actually travel to the back of Bourke?

Besides, why is road rage incident against children into a 4wd bashing exercise? Even a Prius is capable of attacking a bus.

Perhaps you could explain to us all how someone who lives in Canberra needs a 4WD? I’ve travelled widely around the surrounding districts from which people commute to Canberra, and I haven’t come across any terrain that a Commodore couldn’t easily negotiate.

alaninoz said :

From my reading of the report it would appear that the bus tried to do a runner..

The post is about the police “seeking witnesses to a road rage incident” in which a 4WD rammed a busload full of schoolchildren, and you think that ‘the bus tried to do a runner’?!?

WTF?

hotwasabee said :

Besides, why is road rage incident against children into a 4wd bashing exercise? Even a Prius is capable of attacking a bus.

And the day a Prius rams a bus you can be sure we’ll be stereotyping prius owners.

Ben_Dover said :

MightyJoe said :

Also. To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD?

Never felt the need too, I have a more than adequately sized penis, no delusions of my living in back of Bourke, and weigh in at under 150 kilos. But thanks for asking…

Oh yeah, because people who stereotype and involve body parts must really be a sophisticated member of society. Have you ever considered that maybe people from Canberra can actually travel to the back of Bourke?

Besides, why is road rage incident against children into a 4wd bashing exercise? Even a Prius is capable of attacking a bus.

MightyJoe said :

Look, I’m glad that no kids were hurt… buuuut

i have seen so many instances where buses just flick the indicator without looking and pull out of a bus stop. The fact that the Bus ended up being in front of the Landcruiser, what does that suggest?

Also. To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD? I don’t currently own one, but when I did, it made me realise that there are a lot of stupid people out there. 2 tons of car cannot stop on a dime. The amount of people waling onto roads just as I was about to pass / cars cutting in front of me, it was amazing.

Again, maybe the guy was drunk, or angry etc, but given my observations on Action drivers over the years, i really believe that the Bus driver did the old, I’m bigger / stronger, won’t bother looking.

Cheers

MJ

Yes, I have driven a proper 4×4 (not just an “SUV”). They are big, cluncky, but they can still avoid hitting a bus…

Come off it people! It doesn’t matter what the bus did. Ramming into the back of it a second time is scary behaviour, it’s a driver who has completely lost control of himself and is consumed with rage.

You see so much of it on Canberra and surrounding region roads and it’s a bloody concern that people prone to this level of rage are in control of a tonne or more of engine-propelled metal.

The vehicle was described as a beige Toyota Land Cruiser, which probably means it was a 70 series driven by a high vis clothing wearer.

From my reading of the report it would appear that the bus tried to do a runner. Unlikely I know, but that’s how it reads. Why didn’t the bus, and the 4wd, stop after the initial accident?

chewy14 said :

How many 4WD’s in Canberra have ever seen a dirt road?

+1. Some of them do, and some are needed for towing, but too many just do the school run.

BlackIce said :

MightyJoe said :

To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD? I don’t currently own one, but when I did, it made me realise that there are a lot of stupid people out there. 2 tons of car cannot stop on a dime. The amount of people waling onto roads just as I was about to pass / cars cutting in front of me, it was amazing.

The number of 4WD drivers who forget that 2 tonnes of car does not stop on a dime and continue to tailgate is also amazing…

Almost as amazing as the amount of people who think that they need to drive 2 tonnes of car to drive on normal sealed roads.

All too true.

BlackIce said :

MightyJoe said :

To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD? I don’t currently own one, but when I did, it made me realise that there are a lot of stupid people out there. 2 tons of car cannot stop on a dime. The amount of people waling onto roads just as I was about to pass / cars cutting in front of me, it was amazing.

The number of 4WD drivers who forget that 2 tonnes of car does not stop on a dime and continue to tailgate is also amazing…

MightyJoe said :

To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD? I don’t currently own one, but when I did, it made me realise that there are a lot of stupid people out there. 2 tons of car cannot stop on a dime. The amount of people waling onto roads just as I was about to pass / cars cutting in front of me, it was amazing.

The number of 4WD drivers who forget that 2 tonnes of car does not stop on a dime and continue to tailgate is also amazing…

There’s a sign on the back of every ACTION bus: give way when bus is indicating. This applies to any vehicle behind a bus, regardless of size or the character of its driver.

It’s likely the bus indicated to re-enter the lane, but the Cuiser just blew it off as optional and got a bit irrational when he couldn’t get back in his lane.

I wonder if this Cruiser happened to be a white tray-back ute with a firewood advert.

shadow boxer said :

KB1971 said :

MightyJoe said :

i have seen so many instances where buses just flick the indicator without looking and pull out of a bus stop. The fact that the Bus ended up being in front of the Landcruiser, what does that suggest?

I agree they do not launch into traffic so how could you explain a scenario where someone collides with the side of a bus without the bus pulling out while the car was in the way ?
This is not a dig at you directly MJ.

I am curious about this behavior, as I am approaching a bus I am always expecting it to whack its indicator on ready to pull out. Its not a surprise that it is going to happen, thats why there is a law for you to give way I guess so I apprach the bus the way I approach a T intersection with a give way sign, ready to stop as neccesary.

Also, 12 tonnes of bus just does not launch out into the traffic & if they start to go while you are alongside you would generally be able to avoid an accident given the width of our roads.

I just find drivers behavoir odd around buses/heavy vehicles in general.

Not having being there at the time but I would suggest that the bus had already started moving when the guy tried to overtake. The bus could have also been trying to turn a corner.

Not enought facts to form a complete judgement. I was merely passing comment on what I had noticed in the past.

Lol. Pajero to Commodore for me : )

Yes I read the article.

Yes i read the part where he hit from behind.

I was talking about the first part of the accident. and yes agree about the whole 4WD debate doing the same thing as buses.

To the person who referred to buses not being able to lurch out quickly… keep an eye out next time on Northbourne in peak hour. They can lauch just like the old space shuttles did!

Not defending the guy in this instance, but it may have been the straw that broke the camels back.

Holden Caulfield said :

Commodore drivers, you need to up the ante. Can’t have no pussy 4WD stealing ur headlinez.

(I’m also glad no kiddies were hurt in this inicdent.)

Classified said :

There are an awful lot of 4WD owners in this city who seem to think that owning a 4WD means you have automatic right of way.

Yup.

I’ve been driving larger, heavier vehicles for a while now (MR’s) and in those (and moreso I’d suggest for buses and things bigger than MR) it becomes apparent that a lot of car drivers assume that your 8 tonnes can stop, turn, merge, climb hills et al just as quick as everyone else. So give truck/bus drivers a break: it may not be rocket surgery, but it is not easy.

Now I need to qualify that Landcruisers are not trucks, they are large cars that can be driven by people who think they are trucks, and this is where dickheads appear. This guy hitting a bus twice: dickhead.

MightyJoe said :

Also. To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD?

Never felt the need too, I have a more than adequately sized penis, no delusions of my living in back of Bourke, and weigh in at under 150 kilos. But thanks for asking…

I just can’t see a scenario where someone runs into the side of a bus without the bus pulling out while the car was already beside it.

That would make me angry as well, maybe not angry enough to ram a bus, but pretty angry.

The 4wd driver could have seen the bus’s indicator as he approached and thought “nah, I can get past him before he pulls out” – only to be proven wrong. I’ve seen a few near misses under these circumstances.

KB1971 said :

MightyJoe said :

i have seen so many instances where buses just flick the indicator without looking and pull out of a bus stop. The fact that the Bus ended up being in front of the Landcruiser, what does that suggest?

I agree they do not launch into traffic so how could you explain a scenario where someone collides with the side of a bus without the bus pulling out while the car was in the way ?
This is not a dig at you directly MJ.

I am curious about this behavior, as I am approaching a bus I am always expecting it to whack its indicator on ready to pull out. Its not a surprise that it is going to happen, thats why there is a law for you to give way I guess so I apprach the bus the way I approach a T intersection with a give way sign, ready to stop as neccesary.

Also, 12 tonnes of bus just does not launch out into the traffic & if they start to go while you are alongside you would generally be able to avoid an accident given the width of our roads.

I just find drivers behavoir odd around buses/heavy vehicles in general.

MightyJoe said :

i have seen so many instances where buses just flick the indicator without looking and pull out of a bus stop. The fact that the Bus ended up being in front of the Landcruiser, what does that suggest?

This is not a dig at you directly MJ.

I am curious about this behavior, as I am approaching a bus I am always expecting it to whack its indicator on ready to pull out. Its not a surprise that it is going to happen, thats why there is a law for you to give way I guess so I apprach the bus the way I approach a T intersection with a give way sign, ready to stop as neccesary.

Also, 12 tonnes of bus just does not launch out into the traffic & if they start to go while you are alongside you would generally be able to avoid an accident given the width of our roads.

I just find drivers behavoir odd around buses/heavy vehicles in general.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

MightyJoe said :

Look, I’m glad that no kids were hurt… buuuut

i have seen so many instances where buses just flick the indicator without looking and pull out of a bus stop. The fact that the Bus ended up being in front of the Landcruiser, what does that suggest?

Also. To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD? I don’t currently own one, but when I did, it made me realise that there are a lot of stupid people out there. 2 tons of car cannot stop on a dime. The amount of people waling onto roads just as I was about to pass / cars cutting in front of me, it was amazing.

Again, maybe the guy was drunk, or angry etc, but given my observations on Action drivers over the years, i really believe that the Bus driver did the old, I’m bigger / stronger, won’t bother looking.

Cheers

MJ

You read the bit where the driver deliberately drove into the bus right? Right?

Oh come on. Read his post again.

It’s the buses fault, and also if you drive a 4WD then it’s everybody else’s fault for being run over.

Commodore drivers, you need to up the ante. Can’t have no pussy 4WD stealing ur headlinez.

(I’m also glad no kiddies were hurt in this inicdent.)

MightyJoe said :

Look, I’m glad that no kids were hurt… buuuut

i have seen so many instances where buses just flick the indicator without looking and pull out of a bus stop. The fact that the Bus ended up being in front of the Landcruiser, what does that suggest?

Also. To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD? I don’t currently own one, but when I did, it made me realise that there are a lot of stupid people out there. 2 tons of car cannot stop on a dime. The amount of people waling onto roads just as I was about to pass / cars cutting in front of me, it was amazing.

Again, maybe the guy was drunk, or angry etc, but given my observations on Action drivers over the years, i really believe that the Bus driver did the old, I’m bigger / stronger, won’t bother looking.

Cheers

MJ

You read the bit where the driver deliberately drove into the bus right? Right?

MightyJoe said :

i really believe that the Bus driver did the old, I’m bigger / stronger, won’t bother looking.

MJ

Highly possible.
Although you did just describe the most common behaviour of a lot of 4WD drivers in Canberra as well.

How many 4WD’s in Canberra have ever seen a dirt road?

Look, I’m glad that no kids were hurt… buuuut

i have seen so many instances where buses just flick the indicator without looking and pull out of a bus stop. The fact that the Bus ended up being in front of the Landcruiser, what does that suggest?

Also. To all the 4WD haters out there, have you actually ever driven a large (proper) 4WD? I don’t currently own one, but when I did, it made me realise that there are a lot of stupid people out there. 2 tons of car cannot stop on a dime. The amount of people waling onto roads just as I was about to pass / cars cutting in front of me, it was amazing.

Again, maybe the guy was drunk, or angry etc, but given my observations on Action drivers over the years, i really believe that the Bus driver did the old, I’m bigger / stronger, won’t bother looking.

Cheers

MJ

Jim Jones said :

The Frots said :

Hmmmmmmm. Road rage……………………………..or alcohol???

If it’s a landcruiser, it’s a safe bet to say that the issue was a terminal case of being a wanker.

Yep. More likely the case.

Winner alert!

Maybe after the first side hit, they thought they’d need to get a ‘rear’ hit so they could claim the damage on insurance? I suggest the cops try AAMI and NRMA?

I mean rally, why else would you reverse into a bus, in your own car?!? Bet he taught that bus a lesson! Hahahaha! Twat….

Cannot discount the possibility that the bus driver sanctimoniously took his ‘right’ to whack the indicator on and pull out without confirming it was appropriate to do so, and the Land Cruiser driver was forced to brake hard, possibly skidding into the bus. With no legal recourse available due to the inequitable laws in place, he got the shits and made his annoyance plain for the driver to see.

Only a possible scenario mind you but I can see it happening from time to time.

Jim Jones said :

The Frots said :

Hmmmmmmm. Road rage……………………………..or alcohol???

If it’s a landcruiser, it’s a safe bet to say that the issue was a terminal case of being a wanker.

There are an awful lot of 4WD owners in this city who seem to think that owning a 4WD means you have automatic right of way.

How do you collide with the side of a bus while overtaking.

Unless of course the bus pulled out while he was overtaking.

Jim is probably right though.

To all Canberra drivers – I simply cannot stress this enough. If you are driving along and you see a bus ahead of you, you MUST do whatever it takes to get infront of it. Even if that bus is doing the speed limit, it is a sign of tremendous weakness on your part if you don’t get infront of it. Even if you are about to turn left, and the bus is in the left lane, you must change lanes, overtake it, and then cut it off and slam on your brakes to execute your left turn. Same applies when you’re needing to turn left soon after a set of traffic lights. If the left lane at the lights has a bus in it, choose the right lane and then execute the same procedure as above.

Oh, and don’t forget that you should ignore that road rule about giving way to buses that are indicating their intention to exit a bus stop. This rule doesn’t apply to you.

I realise that the vast majority of you already follow these principles but for those that don’t, please – take my advice above and you will get to your destination at least 3.5 seconds quicker.

Jim Jones said :

The Frots said :

Hmmmmmmm. Road rage……………………………..or alcohol???

If it’s a landcruiser, it’s a safe bet to say that the issue was a terminal case of being a wanker.

Really? I thought only wankers stereotyped…………….

The Frots said :

Hmmmmmmm. Road rage……………………………..or alcohol???

If it’s a landcruiser, it’s a safe bet to say that the issue was a terminal case of being a wanker.

Hahahaha, I’m glad the school children weren’t hurt but wow. Sounds like someone was drunk or just plain stupid to me.

Hmmmmmmm. Road rage……………………………..or alcohol???