Chifley fatal

KB1971 said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Sad as all of this is, losing control of a car in a 50km/h zone, whether being chased or not, with enough speed to kill an occupant just smells fishy to me. I’d love to hear the results of the police crash investigation as to the “actual” speed.

You obviously have no idea how easy it is to die in a motor vehicle then.

Speeds as little as 40km/h can produce enough G force for a brain to disintergrate in an impact.

I think it’s more that driving at 50 is unlikely to cause you to lose control of the vehicle in the first place.

KB1971 said :

Speeds as little as 40km/h can produce enough G force for a brain to disintergrate in an impact.

Says the cyclist who thinks banging his fist on the bonnet of car might save his life 😉

wildturkeycanoe said :

Sad as all of this is, losing control of a car in a 50km/h zone, whether being chased or not, with enough speed to kill an occupant just smells fishy to me. I’d love to hear the results of the police crash investigation as to the “actual” speed.

You obviously have no idea how easy it is to die in a motor vehicle then.

Speeds as little as 40km/h can produce enough G force for a brain to disintergrate in an impact.

Speed limits, road rules, passenger number restrictions, education, age of car, yada yada yada. None of these things mean anything if the decision maker chooses to break the law. Despite the great tragedy shit happens and it just did. I am actually surprised this doesn’t happen more often.

Sad as all of this is, losing control of a car in a 50km/h zone, whether being chased or not, with enough speed to kill an occupant just smells fishy to me. I’d love to hear the results of the police crash investigation as to the “actual” speed.

LSWCHP says: The only real solution is to not allow people (particularly males) to drive until their brains reach maturity at around age 25. That’s not going to happen, so I suspect that these tragedies will always be with us.

WOOHOO LSWCHP finally you have made a valid factual point LOL wonders never cease

c_c4:57 pm, 19 Jul 12

You keep saying “young boy” as if that somehow displaces blame, as if being ‘young’ (and I think 17 is pushing the definition of ‘young boy’) is a defence.

The law recognises someone as criminally responsible long before 17, because by that age even if someone isn’t completely mentally developed, they are considered to have the mental capacity to foresee the consequences of their actions.

You don’t make any progress by just writing it off as young folks being young. You need to call it like it is, young people being stupid and throwing it away.

It is 21years for many males before they think through the consequences of actions CC particularly in relation to driving vehicles while their mental and physical growth is still taking place.

Vehicle incidents along with statistics should be sufficient proof over past years for you, the A.C.T being only one state as an example of ‘youths’ hooning around with their new found independence caused by Government issuing licences far too early.

farnarkler said :

I wonder how a brand new WRX or EVO with all their techno wizardry would’ve dealt with the same situation. The VL’s driving dynamics are archaic compared.

Not many 17year olds can afford a $40k WRX or EVO as their first car and most wouldn’t have one anyway. The bogan’s who hoon around in old Commodores refer to WRXs as “hairdresser’s cars”
On one of the TV news bulletins last night it was reported that the people in the Commodore had been pinching hubcaps/dressrims and one of cars they had targeted was chasing them. Sad outcome.

farnarkler said :

I wonder how a brand new WRX or EVO with all their techno wizardry would’ve dealt with the same situation. The VL’s driving dynamics are archaic compared.

Or any car with a half decent ESC system, regardless of the driven wheels.

Anyway, thoughts to the families affected.

farnarkler said :

I think a WRX or EVO would’ve cut power to the wheel(s) that lose traction. These cars don’t let themselves lose control. Even my 8 year old car won’t let me break traction.

I remember when this one happened…

http://region.com.au/car-crash-on-majura-ave/7068

thinkng how fast must this idiot have been going on a suburban, 50-60kmh street, in the middle of the night, to lose control so savagely in a car with such impressive steering, braking, handling and control systems.

farnarkler said :

I think a WRX or EVO would’ve cut power to the wheel(s) that lose traction. These cars don’t let themselves lose control. Even my 8 year old car won’t let me break traction.

I know new WRXs have a little button that allows all that trickery to be switched off. Allso, traction control only controls power when wheels slide due to excessive power being applied. Get it sideways and you’re on your own!

I think a WRX or EVO would’ve cut power to the wheel(s) that lose traction. These cars don’t let themselves lose control. Even my 8 year old car won’t let me break traction.

farnarkler said :

I wonder how a brand new WRX or EVO with all their techno wizardry would’ve dealt with the same situation. The VL’s driving dynamics are archaic compared.

Although the handling and braking of these cars is light years ahead of the old VL, the power of these cars means the kid would probably have been going a lot faster when he came unstuck.

farnarkler said :

I wonder how a brand new WRX or EVO with all their techno wizardry would’ve dealt with the same situation. The VL’s driving dynamics are archaic compared.

You are missing a fundamental point. The primary safety features of the car are somewhat irrelevant. In many single vehicle fatal accidents involving inexperienced (and experienced for that matter) drivers, the vehicle has been pushed beyond its capability regardless of what that capability is. The better the car, the harder it’s pushed.

I wonder how a brand new WRX or EVO with all their techno wizardry would’ve dealt with the same situation. The VL’s driving dynamics are archaic compared.

It doesn’t matter how you change the rules. If you’re going to let young men drive powerful (or even not so powerful) cars, then occasionally they will will screw up and people get dead.

Antagonist said :

00davist said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Actually, Henry makes a good point for once in his miserable life.

The street is a 50 kph zone. How do you lose control enough to crack into a tree and kill your buddy?

Clearly the driver was acting a cock.

True, but the point in question was the need to troll somone who has lost a friend/relative.

and reffering to the residence of the street geting a peicfull nights rest, as if that’s more a priority than the life of the passenger killed in this accident, is simply trying to stir people up and get them upset and aggrivated.

A troll is alot like a school bully, they do what they do in order to upset, becase they feel powerless in their own lives, and therfore look to excert power by making others upset.

And once again we find you encouraging him. The idea with trolls is to ignore them. I would also suggest using a spell checker.

There is a line between encouragement and turning the light back on his sad little life.

He want’s attention, but maybe not to closely.

There is more than one way to skin a cat!

00davist said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Actually, Henry makes a good point for once in his miserable life.

The street is a 50 kph zone. How do you lose control enough to crack into a tree and kill your buddy?

Clearly the driver was acting a cock.

True, but the point in question was the need to troll somone who has lost a friend/relative.

and reffering to the residence of the street geting a peicfull nights rest, as if that’s more a priority than the life of the passenger killed in this accident, is simply trying to stir people up and get them upset and aggrivated.

A troll is alot like a school bully, they do what they do in order to upset, becase they feel powerless in their own lives, and therfore look to excert power by making others upset.

Well peeps need to learn to ignore teh torrls

00davist said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Actually, Henry makes a good point for once in his miserable life.

The street is a 50 kph zone. How do you lose control enough to crack into a tree and kill your buddy?

Clearly the driver was acting a cock.

True, but the point in question was the need to troll somone who has lost a friend/relative.

and reffering to the residence of the street geting a peicfull nights rest, as if that’s more a priority than the life of the passenger killed in this accident, is simply trying to stir people up and get them upset and aggrivated.

A troll is alot like a school bully, they do what they do in order to upset, becase they feel powerless in their own lives, and therfore look to excert power by making others upset.

And once again we find you encouraging him. The idea with trolls is to ignore them. I would also suggest using a spell checker.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Actually, Henry makes a good point for once in his miserable life.

The street is a 50 kph zone. How do you lose control enough to crack into a tree and kill your buddy?

Clearly the driver was acting a cock.

True, but the point in question was the need to troll somone who has lost a friend/relative.

and reffering to the residence of the street geting a peicfull nights rest, as if that’s more a priority than the life of the passenger killed in this accident, is simply trying to stir people up and get them upset and aggrivated.

A troll is alot like a school bully, they do what they do in order to upset, becase they feel powerless in their own lives, and therfore look to excert power by making others upset.

Actually, Henry makes a good point for once in his miserable life.

The street is a 50 kph zone. How do you lose control enough to crack into a tree and kill your buddy?

Clearly the driver was acting a cock.

…..I know a lot of impatient drivers won’t be happy if there is a slow P plater in front of them but this is part of the broader cultural problem….

troll-sniffer said :

…Sorry, but your suggestion is uneducated and ill-informed, and continues the mantra that lower speeds are always safer, something that has been disproven the world over.

Thanks Pot – I don’t agree but your comments have been noted. Also, I can’t help but feel that your tone is a good example of your attitude towards others on the road.

00davist said :

…..I personally would suggest Drink Driving is the greater evil, but it’s not necissarily an easy call.

You may well be right but, for example, I can’t help questioning whether this accident would have happened if the number of passengers had been limited.

00davist said :

On the surface, it makes sence, but the lower speed limit is one of the least effective of the NSW P Plater laws for 2 reasons (In my opinion)

1) It focuses really on highways, and that’s not necisarily the focus needed.

2) on the whole, a fair majority of P Plater fatalities come down not so much to accidents born of inexpreience, but choices born of stupidity.

Speed is a huge issue with young males in particular (To generalise) but for the most part, lowering the limit does not solve the problem, they are already completley ignoring the limit, making it 90 has no effect on that ignorance, even if it does up the penalty.

They need to be getting away with it less.

I agree that lowering the speed limit for P platers (on all roads – not just highways) would not be an ideal outcome. However, I do feel that most if not all P platers don’t have the skills and experience to know when to drive at the normal limit and when it is appropriate to drive at slower speeds. Lower limits would give them “permission” not to feel compelled to keep up with the speed of other traffic (including the many other drivers who speed) and any speeding would become obvious earlier. For those drivers that speed no matter what, penalties would be stiffer (because the margin over their lower speed limit would be higher) which might create an incentive to drive at slightly lower illegal speeds or at least increase the likelihood that they lose their license sooner.

In this case, even though I have difficulty understanding how someone could do that kind of damage at 50km/h it would be even harder to justify at 40km/h.

1) as I said, it’s not an easy call, and while I was reffering to Drink Driving as worse in general, It indeed was not the culprit in this case, and it’s possible with less passengers this may not have happned, or that it would have been much less a tradedy if less people were there to be hurt (infact, if a 2 person limit applied, there is a reasonable assumption no one would have been in the seat that took the force)

2)It’s an interesting point you make about taking the pressure off P platers to ‘Keep Up” and one that I had not considered. particuarly when you first start out, it can seem quite chaotic at times, and having the limit would certainly help remove pressure to go faster than your comfortable with.

This would also be further assisted by enforcemtn of “no Tailgaiting”

I’m still not sure I’m a fan of lower limits for P platers, but this certainly is food for thought.

I guess at the end of the day alot of it comes down to using intellegence, in a lot of cases, death is the result of not obaying road laws, as opposed to inexperience, not to say inexperience does not contribute, it certainly does and that needs to be addressed, it’s just to easy to get away with making a concious choice to be a roadtard.

I mean let’s face it, it’s not a lack of experience that should tell somone a phone in one hand and a pie in the other is being a roadtard!

HenryBG said :

Westoncreek12 said :

The driver did his best to try and control the car,…

Yep, because losing control of your car on a 50km/h road is just such an easy thing to do.

As for fabricating stories about pursuing security cars – how does that help anybody?

I’m sure the residents of Egglestone Crescent are looking forward to some very much quieter evenings from now on.

See, as said above, the trolls come out, there very predictable!

Oh and you’ve hooked yourself one of the biggest ones too!

Afternoon Henry, bored again are we?

Westoncreek12 said :

The driver did his best to try and control the car,…

Yep, because losing control of your car on a 50km/h road is just such an easy thing to do.

As for fabricating stories about pursuing security cars – how does that help anybody?

I’m sure the residents of Egglestone Crescent are looking forward to some very much quieter evenings from now on.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Westoncreek12 said :

Just because they drive a commodore and they are young does not have anything to do with the cause of the crash. This happened to have all of my friends invloved in this crash. The driver did his best to try and control the car, reports are made that they were being followed by a security car. This crash was an accident I dont think the hurtful comments are needed Tyson was taken from us to young and now the driver has to live with the thought of him being the one driving when a life was lost that is punsihment enoughn. And how are yous to know they werent going to someones house not just driving around at night. So unless you were there or know the facts learn to keep your thoughts to yourself.

My advice to you is to stay away from this thread. You will only experience taunting from *very* brave keyboard warriors who enjoy mocking the family and friends of dead teens.

Yep, heed CSRI’s advice and leave it alone. You’ll be doing your friends no favours by feeding the trolls here.

Many agree it’s a tragedy. Don’t make it a spectacle.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Westoncreek12 said :

Just because they drive a commodore and they are young does not have anything to do with the cause of the crash. This happened to have all of my friends invloved in this crash. The driver did his best to try and control the car, reports are made that they were being followed by a security car. This crash was an accident I dont think the hurtful comments are needed Tyson was taken from us to young and now the driver has to live with the thought of him being the one driving when a life was lost that is punsihment enoughn. And how are yous to know they werent going to someones house not just driving around at night. So unless you were there or know the facts learn to keep your thoughts to yourself.

My advice to you is to stay away from this thread. You will only experience taunting from *very* brave keyboard warriors who enjoy mocking the family and friends of dead teens.

+1

Sadly, this is true!

Westoncreek12 said :

Just because they drive a commodore and they are young does not have anything to do with the cause of the crash. This happened to have all of my friends invloved in this crash. The driver did his best to try and control the car, reports are made that they were being followed by a security car. This crash was an accident I dont think the hurtful comments are needed Tyson was taken from us to young and now the driver has to live with the thought of him being the one driving when a life was lost that is punsihment enoughn. And how are yous to know they werent going to someones house not just driving around at night. So unless you were there or know the facts learn to keep your thoughts to yourself.

My advice to you is to stay away from this thread. You will only experience taunting from *very* brave keyboard warriors who enjoy mocking the family and friends of dead teens.

Just because they drive a commodore and they are young does not have anything to do with the cause of the crash. This happened to have all of my friends invloved in this crash. The driver did his best to try and control the car, reports are made that they were being followed by a security car. This crash was an accident I dont think the hurtful comments are needed Tyson was taken from us to young and now the driver has to live with the thought of him being the one driving when a life was lost that is punsihment enoughn. And how are yous to know they werent going to someones house not just driving around at night. So unless you were there or know the facts learn to keep your thoughts to yourself.

troll-sniffer said :

3/ lower speed limits should apply (eg 10km/h off the normal limit for anything over 30km/h) at least for red P platers. They have only limited on road experience, limited or no experience dealing with emergency or unforseen events, no experience driving on their own and no experience driving while rejecting peer pressure. (And yes I know a lot of impatient drivers won’t be happy if there is a slow P plater in front of them but this is part of the broader cultural problem).

Introducing such a rule would lead to more accidents than it would ever save. The speed limits on our roads are already low enough to cater for the less able, P-Platers included. I don’t believe there are any indications that NSW P-Platers who are held to 90km/hr on the highway have less accidents than the ACT P-Platers who can join the traffic flow at 100 km/hr. Sorry, but your suggestion is uneducated and ill-informed, and continues the mantra that lower speeds are always safer, something that has been disproven the world over.

On the surface, it makes sence, but the lower speed limit is one of the least effective of the NSW P Plater laws for 2 reasons (In my opinion)

1) It focuses really on highways, and that’s not necisarily the focus needed.

2) on the whole, a fair majority of P Plater fatalities come down not so much to accidents born of inexpreience, but choices born of stupidity.

Speed is a huge issue with young males in particular (To generalise) but for the most part, lowering the limit does not solve the problem, they are already completley ignoring the limit, making it 90 has no effect on that ignorance, even if it does up the penalty.

They need to be getting away with it less.

3/ lower speed limits should apply (eg 10km/h off the normal limit for anything over 30km/h) at least for red P platers. They have only limited on road experience, limited or no experience dealing with emergency or unforseen events, no experience driving on their own and no experience driving while rejecting peer pressure. (And yes I know a lot of impatient drivers won’t be happy if there is a slow P plater in front of them but this is part of the broader cultural problem).

Introducing such a rule would lead to more accidents than it would ever save. The speed limits on our roads are already low enough to cater for the less able, P-Platers included. I don’t believe there are any indications that NSW P-Platers who are held to 90km/hr on the highway have less accidents than the ACT P-Platers who can join the traffic flow at 100 km/hr. Sorry, but your suggestion is uneducated and ill-informed, and continues the mantra that lower speeds are always safer, something that has been disproven the world over.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

The reason for having a car full of kids being that most of them want to drink is a load of BS, I reckon. If there’s a bunch of you, split a cab.

Yes, that would be a logical thing to do.

My point is, it’s all good and well to talk about what they SHOULD do, but in reality there are pleanty of idiots amongst them who wont, and I don’t want thtem wiping me out in there stupididty.

Trust me, I see no justification to drink driving, however i do realise that limiting passengers can result in idiots driving home drunk.

Think of it not as a BS excuse for drink drivers, but realisim about idiots.

So a young boy dies, and you ignorant insensitive imbeciles care more about making a comment about hoping the tree is OK? It disgusts me that these comments even make it through moderation. They do nothing to add to the conversation apart from en-flame the topic.

Perhaps you idiots could do some research into adolescent brain development.

“Psychologists have long believed that the brain’s judgment-control systems develop more slowly than emotion-governing systems, not maturing until people are in their mid-20s. Hence, teens end up taking far more risks than adults do. Evidence supporting this idea comes from studies looking at functional and structural properties of gray matter, the important part of the brain that contains the neurons that relay brain signals.”

Heaven forbid you morons do some research, you might actually be able to make your flippant comments based on some semblance of fact…

The reason for having a car full of kids being that most of them want to drink is a load of BS, I reckon. If there’s a bunch of you, split a cab.

My sympathies to the family of the deceased. It’s probably a bit raw for many but I also feel sad for the other passengers and especially the driver who are going to have to live with this for the rest of their lives – even if some or all of them are found not to be directly responsible.

There needs to be a cultural change in the attitude of all drivers on the road for which most, if not all of us, are at fault. These young drivers at least in part follow our lead and we need to set a better example for all future drivers. Drive within limits, be courteous to other road users, take a breath instead of immediately criticising other drivers (even young kids notice these things as passengers) and, most of all, set off earlier and focus less on ETAs.

Being able to drive is a privilege not a right, road limits are the maximum (not a guide), anything can go wrong at any time and the only reason most of us haven’t been in an accident YET where someone was killed or seriously injured is luck (possibly assisted by the driving skills and experience of ourselves or someone else).

I realise that traffic enforcement is lacking because of limited resources but tighter road rules would at least help improve the on road culture. For provisional drivers:

1/ licenses should be limited for power to weight (like motorcycle licenses). Special exemptions could be given for vehicles with higher power to weight ratios used solely for work (eg for trades).
2/ licenses should be suspended at lower limits for points accrual (eg 6 points) – we already have lower DUI limits.
3/ lower speed limits should apply (eg 10km/h off the normal limit for anything over 30km/h) at least for red P platers. They have only limited on road experience, limited or no experience dealing with emergency or unforseen events, no experience driving on their own and no experience driving while rejecting peer pressure. (And yes I know a lot of impatient drivers won’t be happy if there is a slow P plater in front of them but this is part of the broader cultural problem).
4/ provisional licenses should be increased to the greater of five years or age 25 (the brains of males don’t fully develop until age 25);
5/ only one passenger under age 25 should be allowed unless there is a fully licensed driver in the vehicle (although there are good arguments against this one as it would conflict with the need for designated drivers).

Your fith point is indeed a hard one, I remember when a very similar law was brought in in NSW just before I got my licence.

It was brought in not long after yet another entire group of mates was wiped out (Kangaroo Valley accident) in the hope that firstly, less mates in the car would remove some of the temptation to act a fool, and secondly, when the worst did happen, it limited the loss of life, simply by having less people there.

But yes, on the other hand it did cause problems for the designated driver sheme, as it limited each dd to only taking home 1 mate.

It wasnot a huge issue for me, my best mate and I tended to be at any social gathering togehter, so we just took it in turns driving each other home, plus we didn’t drink all that often.

But I know of a few guys at those gatherings, and girls, who drove home drunk becase they hadn’t come up with an alternitave.

Not to advocate their choices, I thought it stuip then, and I think it stupid now, but it’s agree’d that there will always be idiots, and with that one it’s hard to come up with a solution that dosn’t have them doing one or the other!

I personally would suggest Drink Driving is the greater evil, but it’s not necissarily an easy call.

its a terrible tragedy.

so as it happens, I know someone who is relatively close to the driver. word is, there was no security guard chasing.

2 cars full of mates driving round being stupid, 1 lost control and this is the result. This is allegedly from someone in the first car (obviously not the commodore).

true or not, its so fkn sad. Another young life lost, family torn apart and dreams shattered.

Is it about time the ACT Government scraps the idea that log book licencing is a completely unsuccessful policy? I don’t know about anyone else, but imo the quality of driving for P platers has reduced so drastically in the last 5 years that I almost feel safer on a bus – and I hate buses.

willo said :

the driver killed his mate……….sleep well pal……..

Well, that went right over your head didn’t it!

Mr Gillespie, Beleive it or not, I agree!

There will never be a zero, and there is a limit to how much we can pour into the idea, but that dosn’t mean we shouldn’t try, As far as I see it, theres 3 main groups with young drivers, the idiots that will hoon no matter what you say, the ones who are generally smarter, but way to easily influenced, and the smart, who don’t get into it.

Education is for the middle catagory really, the ones who might, when faced with the consiquences, actually think more before making their choices.

There will always be idiots, and many of them have no intention of improvement, but there will always be somone who you might help if you can get them to think twice!

And just to help you out there willo, my point was about the dead mate, not the driver!

bikhet said :

Sandman said :

FYI , the driver has been charged and will appear in the children’s court

A question only tangentially related to the circumstances – why the children’s court? Society obviously considers the driver to be responsible enough to be in charge of a deadly weapon, but now that they have killed someone with it they are considered not to be responsible enough to appear in the normal court. There’s something inconsistent here.

Why the children’s court? Because of his age maybe. Do you want a pre-court who’s job it is to decide whether the individual should be tried as a child or an adult? Isn’t there enough redundancy in the courts already. The system is easy, a simple look at a calendar determines which court the offender is sent to. Why complicate things further.

EvanJames said :

. These guys weren’t out harming others.

Says who?

This thread is turning in discussion similar to one about infamous Michael Steep, king of bus interchange toilet’s gloryhole (many people blame, some newly registered defending the victims).LOL.

I too find the story about the second vehicle being a security car somewhat bullsh!t. Perhaps, just PERHAPS, there was a second car, racing with them? Hence the bs story to justify speeding along the street?
Anyhow,let police investigate this properly, and for the young people that were friends to put up a shrine (similar to Michael Steep’s) 😀

P.S. I really do not care about opinions of those who will start to accuse me of being insensitive arsehole.;-)
Happy Friday everyone!!!!!

bikhet said :

Sandman said :

FYI , the driver has been charged and will appear in the children’s court

A question only tangentially related to the circumstances – why the children’s court? Society obviously considers the driver to be responsible enough to be in charge of a deadly weapon, but now that they have killed someone with it they are considered not to be responsible enough to appear in the normal court. There’s something inconsistent here.

Not that I’m picking on the driver. Regardless on any punishment they might receive in court, they are going to spend the rest of their life living with the knowledge that they’ve killed one of their mates.

He’ll be able to take his mind of things by making more midnight raids on Phillip businesses.

Sandman said :

FYI , the driver has been charged and will appear in the children’s court

A question only tangentially related to the circumstances – why the children’s court? Society obviously considers the driver to be responsible enough to be in charge of a deadly weapon, but now that they have killed someone with it they are considered not to be responsible enough to appear in the normal court. There’s something inconsistent here.

Not that I’m picking on the driver. Regardless on any punishment they might receive in court, they are going to spend the rest of their life living with the knowledge that they’ve killed one of their mates.

No you are wrong. It’s upto the parents to educate their kids better. Do not drive like a effwit and do not get into a car with a effwit.

Pretty basic stuff. A lot of people would be alive today if they just stood up and said no.

Sorry to hear your deep personal story, 00davist.

Unfortunately, we all have to endure the death of a loved-one at some point in our lives, and the cause is not always avoidable, or even relevant, ie. no amount of driver education campaigns or road traffic law enforcement will ever bring back those already killed in car crashes. You can only do so much, and throw only so much money into police resources and education resources, but one thing is for certain and I’m sorry this reality sux, but “Vision Zero” will always remain a pipedream and never ever be a reality, not while there’s cars on roads, alcohol continues to be handed out like lollies, idiots continue to breathe, and the world remains an imperfect one.

00davist said :

Just a little more food for thought for the keyboard warriors who feel so safe behind screen names that they will happily disregard the pain that someone is feeling right now.

When I was two, my father was killed in a car accident, after work one day, he caught a lift home with a mate, they stopped at the pub, and had too much, then they drove to another, the driver went in for a few more, and my dad put the seat back, took his belt off, and had a nap in the car park.

Well, naturally the driver came back, and through his own drink, didn’t realise my dad was asleep with no seat belt, the driver fell asleep on parramatta road, and hit a pole, he was ok, but Dad hit the dash.

I hold no illusions to what happened that night, both of them were idiots, it was 1990, so not so far back that they could hide from the truth of drink driving, and Dad was a smart man, he knew better than to be in that car, but he chose to be there, chose to be drunk, and his stupid, f*cked up choices were why he never came home.

There’s no way to justify his actions, he made his choices, and wore the consequences, however, he was a good man, a loving father, and a caring husband, and no matter how much stupidity he showed that night, he did not deserve death, nor did my mum, pregnant at the time, deserve that knock on the door, I deserved to grow up with a father, and my little brother deserved to meet his.

He chose his actions, but that does not negate the life lost, and it in no way softens the pain left behind, at the end of the day, it’s a death as any death is, a man was lost who had so much to offer, and a family was left in tatters.

It’s been 22 years now, and the hurt is still there, you live with it, you move on, but it’s always a loss that walks with you.

No matter how much stupidity went into this accident (and that has not been determined yet) this boy is dead, and that is a tragedy, we all make stupid decisions at some point in our lives, and there’s plenty of us who are lucky to still be breathing.

So rather than making stupid remarks from the safety of your keyboard, how about you stop, and think for a moment of the things you’ve done that could have, with a little worse luck, killed you, and just be thankful for the fact that they didn’t.

A young man is dead, his parents just lost a son, his friends and family will be suffering immensely now, what right do you have to add to that?

If you really are fed up with the results of hooning, then first make damn sure your driving bloody well, then get of your a*se, and do something about it, you can volunteer for education courses at schools, or speak at programs for people who have been caught speeding, my mum has done this for years.

It’s easy to overlook the pain that this has left, it’s easy to mouth off like a fool, it takes courage to show compassion, and it takes allot more than that to actually quit just winging and do something about it.

the driver killed his mate……….sleep well pal……..

Just a little more food for thought for the keyboard warriors who feel so safe behind screen names that they will happily disregard the pain that someone is feeling right now.

When I was two, my father was killed in a car accident, after work one day, he caught a lift home with a mate, they stopped at the pub, and had too much, then they drove to another, the driver went in for a few more, and my dad put the seat back, took his belt off, and had a nap in the car park.

Well, naturally the driver came back, and through his own drink, didn’t realise my dad was asleep with no seat belt, the driver fell asleep on parramatta road, and hit a pole, he was ok, but Dad hit the dash.

I hold no illusions to what happened that night, both of them were idiots, it was 1990, so not so far back that they could hide from the truth of drink driving, and Dad was a smart man, he knew better than to be in that car, but he chose to be there, chose to be drunk, and his stupid, f*cked up choices were why he never came home.

There’s no way to justify his actions, he made his choices, and wore the consequences, however, he was a good man, a loving father, and a caring husband, and no matter how much stupidity he showed that night, he did not deserve death, nor did my mum, pregnant at the time, deserve that knock on the door, I deserved to grow up with a father, and my little brother deserved to meet his.

He chose his actions, but that does not negate the life lost, and it in no way softens the pain left behind, at the end of the day, it’s a death as any death is, a man was lost who had so much to offer, and a family was left in tatters.

It’s been 22 years now, and the hurt is still there, you live with it, you move on, but it’s always a loss that walks with you.

No matter how much stupidity went into this accident (and that has not been determined yet) this boy is dead, and that is a tragedy, we all make stupid decisions at some point in our lives, and there’s plenty of us who are lucky to still be breathing.

So rather than making stupid remarks from the safety of your keyboard, how about you stop, and think for a moment of the things you’ve done that could have, with a little worse luck, killed you, and just be thankful for the fact that they didn’t.

A young man is dead, his parents just lost a son, his friends and family will be suffering immensely now, what right do you have to add to that?

If you really are fed up with the results of hooning, then first make damn sure your driving bloody well, then get of your a*se, and do something about it, you can volunteer for education courses at schools, or speak at programs for people who have been caught speeding, my mum has done this for years.

It’s easy to overlook the pain that this has left, it’s easy to mouth off like a fool, it takes courage to show compassion, and it takes allot more than that to actually quit just winging and do something about it.

LSWCHP said :

Postalgeek said :

The only real solution is to not allow people (particularly males) to drive until their brains reach maturity at around age 25. That’s not going to happen, so I suspect that these tragedies will always be with us.

I’ve met many mature males that were younger than 25. Stop being sexist!

Madam Cholet said :

Idiots are on our roads every where, not just late at night with P plates. Just the other day I stopped at the traffic lights on the Monaro at Hume and had been sitting there for about two seconds when a B double whooshed through the patently obvious red light at about a billion k’s an hour. There were two vehicles waiting to cross the Monaro and another second it would have been carnage – and more than likely would have cleaned me and my little one up as well. I feel like everyday I get home safely in my car is bordering on a miracle.

What you have just described occurs disturbingly with monotonous regularity at most traffic light intersections throughout this country.The simple truth is that a significant proportion of truckies and passenger vehicles don’t give a f**k.They will justify their actions by indicating that they didn’t have time or were unwilling to stop given that it’s a major inconvenience.I’d be more than happy for govts to get serious and install red light and speed cameras at all major intersections.Yes it would be expensive but it would be money well spent given they’re quite effective in changing people’s attitudes.

…and troll- sniffer, all those PS offices are full of self appointed time wasting editorial nazis, who add little to no actual value. Oh yes, I added those offensive words because I could.

Jethro said :

You don’t know the circumstances and it’s pretty awful of you and some others to be using this forum to have a go at a dead boy. You can guarantee that some of his friends and family will come across this story, and it really isn’t necessary for you to be so insensitive.

+ 1. I’m no bleeding heart, but as someone else said, we all did this stuff when younger. These guys weren’t out harming others. There’s no reason to be making glib or cheap comments.

What a factual discussion this has turned into.

FYI , the driver has been charged and will appear in the children’s court. I was building a cubby with the radio on all day and all the morning reports had the sound clip of “Michael- father of a passenger” going on about the alleged security car running them off the road. The first report of the driver being charged had lost this sound snippet however so I guess Police discounted that allegation.

cranky said :

Reading between the lines, it does appear that the car was perhaps trying to stay in front of a security person, who perhaps had good reason for pursuing the Commodore. Could be interesting to hear what mischief was got into in Woden/Phillip late last night.

apparently a continuation of mischief in car yards that has occurred before last night on several occasions

I’m guessing the fullness of the story behind the accident will come out in time.

bigred said :

Well there is three extra third party claims from one moment in time. No wonder premiums are up.

Why do you need the qualifier ‘in time’? Is there any other sort of moment? Just as bad as the redundancy in ‘at this point in time’ etc. Then again this is a city full of public servants so no surprises that verbiose garbage creeps into the language.

Postalgeek said :

The young bloke was a passenger, not the driver FFS

I don’t know all the circumstances relating to this accident, but I recall several times getting into a car and then wishing I hadn’t. Once I was stuck in a car with the driver trying to race around narrow, blind English country lanes. That was harrowing. Even now I get pissed thinking about it.

And being young, passengers in a full car tend to clam up and suck it up. It’s a very vulnerable situation at that age when you’re stuck with a dickhead driving.

All you can do is try to teach your kids to have the confidence to punch the lights out of the driver when a safe moment presents itself.

I can vividly recall two separate occasion from over 30 years ago when I was in a vehicle with a group of my teenaged mates, and the driver had a sudden rush of testosterone. I was lucky to get out alive, and I had the shakes afterwards on both occasions. One of those blokes subsequently rolled his parents car with other people in the vehicle, and it was a miracle that there were no fatalities or injuries.

And I met another guy a few years later who’d crashed his car as a teenager and killed his passenger.

The only real solution is to not allow people (particularly males) to drive until their brains reach maturity at around age 25. That’s not going to happen, so I suspect that these tragedies will always be with us.

c_c said :

You keep saying “young boy” as if that somehow displaces blame, as if being ‘young’ (and I think 17 is pushing the definition of ‘young boy’) is a defence.

The law recognises someone as criminally responsible long before 17, because by that age even if someone isn’t completely mentally developed, they are considered to have the mental capacity to foresee the consequences of their actions.

You don’t make any progress by just writing it off as young folks being young. You need to call it like it is, young people being stupid and throwing it away.

The boy was a passenger, not the driver. His only mistake was to get in the car. As a teenager I had an occasion or two when I got lifts from friends from school who then proceeded to drive like complete tools. Telling them to slow down only resulted in being laughed at or called a pussy.

You don’t know the circumstances and it’s pretty awful of you and some others to be using this forum to have a go at a dead boy. You can guarantee that some of his friends and family will come across this story, and it really isn’t necessary for you to be so insensitive.

00davist’s comment said it best. It really isn’t hard to be understanding and compassionate when a tragedy like this occurs.

The replay of the call to 2CC on Win News said the second vehicle flashed their lights and startled the driver.

Second car sounds like bs, I’ve never seen a security car that would keep up with even the crappiest of commodores.

Its so easy for everyone to stand on their ivory tower and point the finger, but a lot of the time, the only difference between us oldies and the kids/adolescents of today is that we, the oldies, got lucky and lived through all our reckless life threatening stuff. Sadly a lot of my generation forget that they were once young and did the exact same stupid suff too, but got lucky and made it to today.

Regardless of who what when where why and how, someone has died, maybe you dont care, but show a bit of empathy, as anyone with a conscience should. Ask yourself how you would feel if it was someone you knew before you make a hateful comment.

Idiots are on our roads every where, not just late at night with P plates. Just the other day I stopped at the traffic lights on the Monaro at Hume and had been sitting there for about two seconds when a B double whooshed through the patently obvious red light at about a billion k’s an hour. There were two vehicles waiting to cross the Monaro and another second it would have been carnage – and more than likely would have cleaned me and my little one up as well. I feel like everyday I get home safely in my car is bordering on a miracle.

The young bloke was a passenger, not the driver FFS

I don’t know all the circumstances relating to this accident, but I recall several times getting into a car and then wishing I hadn’t. Once I was stuck in a car with the driver trying to race around narrow, blind English country lanes. That was harrowing. Even now I get pissed thinking about it.

And being young, passengers in a full car tend to clam up and suck it up. It’s a very vulnerable situation at that age when you’re stuck with a dickhead driving.

All you can do is try to teach your kids to have the confidence to punch the lights out of the driver when a safe moment presents itself.

It is sad that this event resulted in a death. My condolences to family and friends of the victim. This is too great a penalty for a driving indiscretion.

Reading between the lines, it does appear that the car was perhaps trying to stay in front of a security person, who perhaps had good reason for pursuing the Commodore. Could be interesting to hear what mischief was got into in Woden/Phillip late last night.

c_c said :

Solitude said :

Circumstances matter, these guys were dopes up to no good. We should just be thankful the tree wasn’t hurt worse and no once else was injured or killed.

They were all “up to no good”? you know what happened I take it, do tell. Yes the poor tree, the pain it must have suffered.

Well there is three extra third party claims from one moment in time. No wonder premiums are up.

SnapperJack said :

The people I feel sorry for are the nearby residents who had their sleep disrupted by all that noise and commotion at 1AM, not to mention the inconvenience of having their street blocked off and putting up with a full-scale police operation happening under their noses.

I too am upset about a perfectly good Commodore being damaged and I hope the tree is able to fully recover.

Yeah? More sorry for them than say, his parents? His brother and sister? He was a good kid, and didn’t deserve this.

c_c said :

You keep saying “young boy” as if that somehow displaces blame, as if being ‘young’ (and I think 17 is pushing the definition of ‘young boy’) is a defence.

Blame for what? What would he need to defend? Do you know something the rest of us don’t?

His behaviour, getting into a car with a P Plater, was risky. And yes that’s what young people do, take risks.

I can’t believe that people are just drawing their own conlusions when it comes to the death of this boy. It’s so rude, imagine that his parents got on here and saw that. Just think. The death of a young person tears communities apart, and I know this from experience. There was no need for any of those heartless and presumptuous comments, you had no right to post them. Do you feel good about yourself that you managed troll another post? Have a medal!

The people I feel sorry for are the nearby residents who had their sleep disrupted by all that noise and commotion at 1AM, not to mention the inconvenience of having their street blocked off and putting up with a full-scale police operation happening under their noses.

I too am upset about a perfectly good Commodore being damaged and I hope the tree is able to fully recover.

c_c said :

You keep saying “young boy” as if that somehow displaces blame, as if being ‘young’ (and I think 17 is pushing the definition of ‘young boy’) is a defence.

The law recognises someone as criminally responsible long before 17, because by that age even if someone isn’t completely mentally developed, they are considered to have the mental capacity to foresee the consequences of their actions.

You don’t make any progress by just writing it off as young folks being young. You need to call it like it is, young people being stupid and throwing it away.

I know what you’re saying, and I do agree.
But think of it from the loved one’s perspective; he had so much ahead of him.

You keep saying “young boy” as if that somehow displaces blame, as if being ‘young’ (and I think 17 is pushing the definition of ‘young boy’) is a defence.

The law recognises someone as criminally responsible long before 17, because by that age even if someone isn’t completely mentally developed, they are considered to have the mental capacity to foresee the consequences of their actions.

You don’t make any progress by just writing it off as young folks being young. You need to call it like it is, young people being stupid and throwing it away.

c_c said :

Solitude said :

What a waste of a perfectly good white commodore. The tree will take years to fully recover too.

Incredibly insensitive comment.
At the end of the day a life has been lost. Regardless of the circumstances, this is a complete tragedy.
A mother and father have lost their son. Relatives have lost a dear family member. Young boys have lost a great mate.
Don’t joke about it.

And if they happened to smash into another vehicle, and killed the innocent occupants, instead of a tree?

Circumstances matter, these guys were dopes up to no good. We should just be thankful the tree wasn’t hurt worse and no once else was injured or killed.

Wow. Some people never cease to amaze me.
As I said, regardless of the circumstances a young boy is dead. There is absolutely no need for the smart a*se responses.

And you don’t know the circumstances, so get off your high horse.

The_Bulldog said :

With respect to those impacted by this tragedy – this should be a moment where we consider our own driving behaviours and how they impact others. This shouldn’t just be a wake-up call for inexperienced drivers either.

Yep. Very sad event. Buuuuut, it never stops happening. Idiot kids get in cars with idiot drivers and crash and die. It’s not like it’s a rare thing to happen. Peeps should know better. How much more education can be given about the dangers of cars? I think parents need to do a better job. I have two young girls and they will understand as soon as old enough the dangers of getting in a car with a idiot driver.

Having said that, I know zero details of this accident and if being dumb was not he case I apologise in advance.

Also, very unlikely story about the security car chasing them.

Solitude said :

What a waste of a perfectly good white commodore. The tree will take years to fully recover too.

Incredibly insensitive comment.
At the end of the day a life has been lost. Regardless of the circumstances, this is a complete tragedy.
A mother and father have lost their son. Relatives have lost a dear family member. Young boys have lost a great mate.
Don’t joke about it.

And if they happened to smash into another vehicle, and killed the innocent occupants, instead of a tree?

Circumstances matter, these guys were dopes up to no good. We should just be thankful the tree wasn’t hurt worse and no once else was injured or killed.

Given the obstacles one has to negotiate ie. trees,light poles,inattentive oblivious drivers and then combine that with young inexperienced drivers who think they’re bulletproof it’s remarkable that there are not more collisions resulting in injury and fatality.

With respect to those impacted by this tragedy – this should be a moment where we consider our own driving behaviours and how they impact others. This shouldn’t just be a wake-up call for inexperienced drivers either.

00davist said :

Solitude said :

What a waste of a perfectly good white commodore. The tree will take years to fully recover too.

Incredibly insensitive comment.
At the end of the day a life has been lost. Regardless of the circumstances, this is a complete tragedy.
A mother and father have lost their son. Relatives have lost a dear family member. Young boys have lost a great mate.
Don’t joke about it.

This is something that is overlooked too often, yes, it’s another white commodore hitting a tree, yes, it was loaded with young guys, with a P Plate driver, and yes, it happened late at night, however, that does not justify insensitive comments.

It’s not hard to make guesses as to what happened, and the circumstances seem to mirror recipes we all know lead to crashes, but the police had to wait to be able to assess the scene and determine what happened, so I can’t see how anyone at home can determine it so decisively from a photo on their screen.

A young man is dead, and that leaves alot of pain, regardless of how the car was being driven, on top of that, even if you think the driving style lessens the loss, I can’t see how you can apply that to passengers, he may not have been comfortable himself if the car was going to fast.

On top of that, how many people here did stupid things in their youth, drove to fast, got in a fight, or blew up a letter box, while I’m sure not everyone will be putting their hand up, I strongly doubt no one here can, did this kid deserve to die, even if stupidity was involved?

I’m not trying to justify hooning, if that was indeed the case, but if you want the death penalty, move to the US, and if you want it for driving offences, perhaps you should get yourself an island.

It’s not like we don’t get fed up and sometimes tell people that hoons should all go into tree’s and take themselves out before killing others, but an exasperated expression when we see a speeding car should not translate into insensitive commentary where someone has lost a child.

For anyone who knew this kid, you have my heartfelt sympathies, and to our resident trolls (MrGillespie, Henry BG, etc…) really think about it before you jump in here.

Lots of young people grieving at the scene this afternoon. Unfortunately, it will happen again and again and again……

Solitude said :

What a waste of a perfectly good white commodore. The tree will take years to fully recover too.

Incredibly insensitive comment.
At the end of the day a life has been lost. Regardless of the circumstances, this is a complete tragedy.
A mother and father have lost their son. Relatives have lost a dear family member. Young boys have lost a great mate.
Don’t joke about it.

This is something that is overlooked too often, yes, it’s another white commodore hitting a tree, yes, it was loaded with young guys, with a P Plate driver, and yes, it happened late at night, however, that does not justify insensitive comments.

It’s not hard to make guesses as to what happened, and the circumstances seem to mirror recipes we all know lead to crashes, but the police had to wait to be able to assess the scene and determine what happened, so I can’t see how anyone at home can determine it so decisively from a photo on their screen.

A young man is dead, and that leaves alot of pain, regardless of how the car was being driven, on top of that, even if you think the driving style lessens the loss, I can’t see how you can apply that to passengers, he may not have been comfortable himself if the car was going to fast.

On top of that, how many people here did stupid things in their youth, drove to fast, got in a fight, or blew up a letter box, while I’m sure not everyone will be putting their hand up, I strongly doubt no one here can, did this kid deserve to die, even if stupidity was involved?

I’m not trying to justify hooning, if that was indeed the case, but if you want the death penalty, move to the US, and if you want it for driving offences, perhaps you should get yourself an island.

It’s not like we don’t get fed up and sometimes tell people that hoons should all go into tree’s and take themselves out before killing others, but an exasperated expression when we see a speeding car should not translate into insensitive commentary where someone has lost a child.

For anyone who knew this kid, you have my heartfelt sympathies, and to our resident trolls (MrGillespie, Henry BG, etc…) really think about it before you jump in here.

What a waste of a perfectly good white commodore. The tree will take years to fully recover too.

Incredibly insensitive comment.
At the end of the day a life has been lost. Regardless of the circumstances, this is a complete tragedy.
A mother and father have lost their son. Relatives have lost a dear family member. Young boys have lost a great mate.
Don’t joke about it.

R.I.P Tyson

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Anyone know what happened?

On the radio the father of one of the guys in the Commodore is claiming they were being chased & harassed by a security vehicle which subsequently fled the scene. Don’t quote me on that though, I only caught half of the story. Sounds like bull$hit but I’ve been wrong plenty of times before.

2CC have claims a second car was involved:

http://2cc.net.au/podcasts/58-mark-parton-podcasts/4593-father-alleges-second-car-involved-in-fatal-accident-fled-scene.html

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Anyone know what happened?

White VL is what the Facebook is saying

Anyone know what happened?

need moar speed camera’s

Hmm 1 am, four guys in a white Commodore, doesn’t take a lot of imagination to figure it out but I could be wrong.