Another tilt at the windmill of pay parking in the parliamentary zone

wednesday said :

re VY, Axe Man

Fair enough. I was thinking that being able to park for free next to your workplace isn’t a right, and I wouldn’t expect it going into any job. But I guess in this situation you have precedent.

Also, we don’t have any trouble catching buses daily into Barton — especially the xpressos. ACTION might not be the greatest bus service in the world, and obviously doesn’t satisfy many people, but it’s good enough for us.

As an individual, good bus services are terrific. When you drop a wife at work and child at pre-school on the way (and pick them up on the way home) it’s not so viable…

Seems apathy is dogging Mr Humphries’ best efforts to defend us against the ACT government; the petition he started (which is to the federal parliament) only has 46 signatures so-far:
http://www.gopetition.com.au/petitions/canberrans-against-paid-parking-in-the-parliamentary-triangle.html

Maybe more people will car pool – one person, one car, one carspace – it is an extravagant misuse of resources.

If they drain the lake there would be enough parking places for everyone. It angers me that water huggers insist on keeping it.

FFS, you store your unused car, you pay. Simple really. Get over it.

The parking fees paid in Canberra aren’t anything like “equivalent” to Sydney, where it’s about $35/day. This is not Sydney, but it is not Dubbo either.

Go Gazza, I say – he is right about the buses. This conversation SHOULD be about why ACT govt slugs people so hard for parking. This is not Sydney, and we should not be paying equivalent parking fees. What’s next, a toll on Commonwealth Ave Bridge?

Having Realm with its public pay park changes things a bit. Other buidings have pay parking underneath for staff of tenants, and some tenants pay the parking and charge the staff (through their salaries etc).

Plans are afoot to build DFAT a new high-rise carpark out the front, between the front of their building and the moth paddock, that will be a commercial project and presumably the operators will charge users in some way.

One of the dirt carparks (used by Austrade and Communications) will soon disappear as Finance have sold the block on the corner of National cct and Canberra Ave for a new building to go up.

As I tootle along in the heavy traffic coming into Canberra every day from the east, I wonder if this stream of workers is the elephant in the living room, or are they the bus-less group who will be paying for the car parking.

re VY, Axe Man

Fair enough. I was thinking that being able to park for free next to your workplace isn’t a right, and I wouldn’t expect it going into any job. But I guess in this situation you have precedent.

Also, we don’t have any trouble catching buses daily into Barton — especially the xpressos. ACTION might not be the greatest bus service in the world, and obviously doesn’t satisfy many people, but it’s good enough for us.

It’s a hard call. Much of the parking within the Parliamentary triangle is there to meet the needs of Australian tax payers who are visiting the Capitals institutions (National Gallery, High Court, National Portrait Gallery National Science Centre, National Library, National Archives and the Parliament Houses). Some of these car parks have put in place mechanisms to stop public servants filling up the car parks and inconveniencing visitors (they only open at 10.00am or you have to validate you ticket inside the relevant institution etc).

The remaining car parks near the John Gorton Building and Treasury aren’t enough to accommodate the volume of cars anyway, so if they’re paid for or not, there’s still a lot of people looking for somewhere to park their cars. I can’t see how making people pay is going to improve parking.

Oh – I forgot rule 1.

1. In the city there is no concept of free parking – get over it

Unless you implemented rule 0..

Mwa ha ha ha

This is very very funny

Rule 0 when negotiating your package… Make sure that parking is included…

Oh – You cant negotiate?

Bugga!

There are residents in Richmond? Blow me down.

So Gazza’s a closet socialist… who knew?

c9: The weekday parking restrictions in suburbs like Reid and Braddon are there so that the people who live in those suburbs don’t have to put up with living in a carpark. It’s no different in concept to the “resident parking only” rules that apply to suburbs like Richmond in Melbourne.

Wanon said :

I’m quite concerned about the new ASIO building and whether they’re building any new car parks to go with their new 10 000 odd person building

Refer to http://www.asio.gov.au/Media/Contents/new_central_office.aspx
“The new building will accommodate up to 1,800 people and operate 24 hours per day[…]”

What did Gary Rake from the NCA say in response to Humphries?

For FBT to be paid, there are a number of criteria to be set, included that the cost of all day car parking exceeds threshold for the FBT: at 2009 is $7.07. Also there is a commercial car park within 1km of the office.

Lets see:

Hotel Realm 18 National Circuit Barton, has two levels of underground secure car parking available to in-house guests and the general public. Rates are as follows:
In-house guests $10 per car per day
Valet car parking $15 per car per day
Casual car parking rates are also available

Therefore, I guess most offices in Barton, Parkes, would have to pay FBT. But I guess those parking on the dirt paddocks do not have to pay FBT.

what would be entertaining to point out the follies of the public transport strategy and the inadequacies of ACTION would be an orchestrated campaign like a day where everyone is encouraged to commute by bus – so you get like 10 times the normal number of people turning up at bus stops at 8 am one morning.

How many of our ACT Government politicians pay for their parking spaces?

Pay parking is also usually associated with public transport hubs, not with public transport backwaters like Barton and Russell.

Err?

Growling Ferret said:

Great idea. I’ll pay for parking when the Parliamentary triangle has a post office, convenience stores, a number of takeaways, a sporting goods retailer and all those other shops and facilities that pay parking is normally centred around…

Yes, like a shopping mall, for instance … and add to that a bank or two. One of the biggest hassles of pay parking is not having sufficient coins on you when you need them for the voucher machine — a common problem in these days of EFTPOS shopping when one gets no coins back in change from normal shopping, and ATMs and EFTPOS cashouts only provide notes. It’s a bit rich to be expected to constantly have coins available for pay parking when there’s no bank around in the pay-parking area where you can get a roll of coins if need be in order to be able to feed the voucher machine.

Pay parking is also usually associated with public transport hubs, not with public transport backwaters like Barton and Russell.

indigoid, re post # 12, there is plenty of motorbike parking at PH. In the public car park, there are two areas set aside for bikes, and generally there is space to spare. In the Melbourne Ave car park (see http://www.aph.gov.au/visitors/pedestrian.pdf) also known as razor blades, there are also several motorbike parking spots.

I’d be happy for pay parking as long as *I* don’t have to pay! 😛

That’s the epitomy of Canberra right there. It must mean I’m becoming a Canberran. 🙁

Put a boom gate on the Russell car parks where work prox passes gets you in and out for free.
The people who park in Russell and work in the city might bugger off free up a few spaces for the people who actually work there.

I’m quite concerned about the new ASIO building and whether they’re building any new car parks to go with their new 10 000 odd person building

Wallly1972 said :

I think paid parking in the parliamentry zone (and all commonwealth land inside the act) is long overdue as a way to manage a scarce resource. It would result in more spaces available for tourists and short term visitors and also encourage public servants to use public transport, cycling and car pooling. It also make it easier for the ACT government to plan transport infrastructure.

It is up to the Commonwealth Government to provide sufficient parking spaces/transport for its employees. And visitors to national institutions. It is not up to ACT residents to clean up their mess.

My message to Gary Humphries is this: pay for parking and learn what it’s like for everyone else

Get the politicians or at least their staff onto the buses and we might actually see them fixed properly instead of a slight rejig every 12 months with grand press releases

Canberra is not like other cities. There is an artificial scarcity of parking created by stupid restriction. For instance, most suburban streets in Reid are No Parking 9-11 and 2-3 Mon – Fri; where it is clearly not unsafe to park. Not to mention the loading zones and taxi zones in Bunda St. Those who are determined not to pay still find a way, and make a nusience of themselves.

Similar social engineering goes on all across Canberra – particularly Braddon, Turner, O’Connor, Manuka, around Woden, at the ANU etc etc.

hey, i don’t mind the pay parking as long as we all get a pay raise to cover the cost of parking in the city each day. Apparently there is a shortage of workers in the ACT – give them more of an incentive to come here

#29: Want it all on a platter, do you, with lower taxes the icing on the proverbial cake?

With specific regard to motorbikes — Phillip Subway carpark a couple of months ago I saw eight police bikes (a mix of BMW R1200RT and Yamaha FJR1300) parked in two regular car spaces. They actually fit quite comfortably, and they’re quite big bikes!

Can Gary Humphries give us free parking in all the other bits of Canberra too

Great idea. I’ll pay for parking when the Parliamentary triangle has a post office, convenience stores, a number of takeaways, a sporting goods retailer and all those other shops and facilities that pay parking is normally centred around…

have any of you ever considered driving to near and free proximity to your work and walking the remainder of the way? best of both worlds if you ask me. it’s what i do when it’s raining – i don’t ride my bike in the rain.

wednesday said :

“To have to pay to park my car to go to work is ridiculous.”

LOL. Consider yourself lucky you don’t work in the centre of Sydney, Melbourne, etc.

Whats that got to do with it?

Can I also consider myself lucky I don’t work in the centre of Bowral?

And if I did live in Melbourne or Sydney at least I’d have a direct route to work via tram or train and not have to deal with buses

wednesday said :

“To have to pay to park my car to go to work is ridiculous.”

LOL. Consider yourself lucky you don’t work in the centre of Sydney, Melbourne, etc.

You mean those places where there is reliable and effective public transport, as well as places to leave your car before you actually get onto said public trabsport?

The Axe Man said :

This is a stupid idea.

The argument that those in the triangle should pay because others have to pay is so stupid there is no need to refute it

+1

“To have to pay to park my car to go to work is ridiculous.”

LOL. Consider yourself lucky you don’t work in the centre of Sydney, Melbourne, etc.

This is a stupid idea.

The argument that those in the triangle should pay because others have to pay is so stupid there is no need to refute it

If anything they should be removing pay parking if you’re at any location for your employment.
To have to pay to park my car to go to work is ridiculous.

On the other hand if this does come to fruition I’ll have more reasons to go out and get myself a new motorbike

I think paid parking in the parliamentry zone (and all commonwealth land inside the act) is long overdue as a way to manage a scarce resource. It would result in more spaces available for tourists and short term visitors and also encourage public servants to use public transport, cycling and car pooling. It also make it easier for the ACT government to plan transport infrastructure.

According to Gary Rake on 666 this morning the NCA would get the funds and then pay the ACT for management services.

The ACT government should invest more in public transport, including park & ride facilities. However, comments like “My message to Jon Stanhope is this: fix the buses, then we’ll talk about paid parking!” remind me of a chicken and an egg!

I’m happy to pay.

Boom gate the Parliamantary triangle, and make them pay on toll on exit.

Simple.

Pandy said :

The truth would be that the Federal government would get proabaly get a 50% cut. Lets not forget that parking in Belconnen near and on the government buildings is in many cases on Federal land. Guess what folks, you pay.

DFATS might have free parking, but the department cannot escape the FBT. In some Departments, the employee pays for the FBT and gets a rostered car park. Seems fair to me.

I don’t know if this is true but I have hard that Commonwealth Employers do not have to report on FBT of less than $2000, and employees are allowed up to $2000 in FB before they have to start paying tax. Normally the employers don’t want to do any extra paper work for the ATO so they only charge their staff no more than $36 a week, (taken out of Gross), so it ends up costing an EL2 around $17 a week to park.

How can we fix the buses when the federal government provides free parking and doesn’t even pay Fringe Benefit Taxes. Try finding free parking in any other capital city.

As a regular visitor to our National Attractions I would happily pay for short-term parking if there was any. The ACT wants to attract visitors but doesn’t provide any parking.

PBO said :

Just another example of our local government trying to milk all it can from the federal government. Local government trying to charge people for parking on federal land does not seem right to me.

Yet Local Government is expected to fund and provide services to/on federal government land?

Why should the public servants be exempt from paying parking that the rest of Canberra has to pay? After all, the majority of public servants are Canberra residents and utilise it’s infrastructure.

neanderthalsis said :

Parking in Barton is a bit of a nightmare. Even with DAFF gone it still seems like you need to be here by 7:30 to get a park. I’m lucky in that I have an allocated basement carpark and don’t have to fight for a spot on Macquarie st or the horrid mud puddle on Blackall.

DAFF going certainly freed things up for the JGB, when the cops move in things will get very fraught. I’ve noticed the mud puddle in the Carpark of Shame getting bigger and bigger, and fewer cars dare to take it on. But the long gravel park behind PM&C stays parkable for a lot longer than it used ot.

Must say, I’m rather enjoying basement parking too, with my own spot and everything! I don’t mind paying for the delightful convenience and I never need get my shoes wet.

DFAT aren’t actually in the Parliamentary Triangle, although I think they’ve got some other definition which is larger, a precinct. Either way, when they start building the Climate Change building on their carpark, things will get interesting.

A question though, if pay parking is introduced, then that surely will change the FBT situation for all departments, and Parliament House, too? Where there’s no pay parking it shoudl be fairly simple for those departments who have special places for the SES people, but once there is pay parking, they’ll have to salary package these peoples’ parking payments or cop the liability?

HAHA!

Well, local politicians don’t pay for their cars either, so it all works out!

I love being a motorcyclist! Free parking pretty much everywhere, and it is always quite close to where I want to be, too, and easily accessible. I truly relish the smug, gloating, pitiless look I can give car drivers struggling for a park in their Falcodores and urban terrorist 4WD vehicles. 🙂

If you work 9-5 at Russell (I don’t, but my SO does) you can apparently shave 10-15 minutes off each end of your working day by riding a bike instead of driving a car. Park directly outside your building, instead of what is locally known as Siberia…

TBH I haven’t had a need to park my bike at APH yet. Is there good motorcycle parking there?

Bring it on, I say. We desperately need short-stay parking that is properly policed. Pay parking is the only way I can see that it could happen. It is currently very difficult when you have a 1-hour meeting.

By the way, our local politicians also don’t pay for parking. How about some real pay parking equity?

So what happens to tourists visiting our national attractions such as the NGA, OPH, APH, National Science Centre and the National Library? Will they have to pay?

Parking in Barton is a bit of a nightmare. Even with DAFF gone it still seems like you need to be here by 7:30 to get a park. I’m lucky in that I have an allocated basement carpark and don’t have to fight for a spot on Macquarie st or the horrid mud puddle on Blackall.

realityskin said :

It is actually in DFATS CA that employees get free parking.

Where does it say that?
http://www.dfat.gov.au/dept/ca_2009/DFAT_CA_2009-10.pdf

The truth would be that the Federal government would get proabaly get a 50% cut. Lets not forget that parking in Belconnen near and on the government buildings is in many cases on Federal land. Guess what folks, you pay.

DFATS might have free parking, but the department cannot escape the FBT. In some Departments, the employee pays for the FBT and gets a rostered car park. Seems fair to me.

Just another example of our local government trying to milk all it can from the federal government. Local government trying to charge people for parking on federal land does not seem right to me.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Why do we need pay parking at all?

Some would say it is because the ACT Government enjoys the revenue, others would say it is an effective way of managing the demand for parking (i.e. if it were free, demand would outstrip supply).

The truth probably lies somewhere in between.

It is actually in DFATS CA that employees get free parking.

Because everyone else has to pay.

Why do we need pay parking at all?

EL2’s in many departments already get an allocated berth. Sure they pay for it. But hey, are they not human like the rest of us and also have to drop of kids etc and then have to fight for a park?

If the Government continues to insist that new buildings in the Traingle have to provide some parking (looks they are not guaranteeing this) and the parks are then balloted to the employees taking into consideration shift workers, than I don’t have a problem with paid parking. Everyone gets a chance to get a space. Oh better public transport is also a must too.

Anyone who complains about being forced to pay for paid parking gets no sympathy from me.