16 September 2025

Bold climate and energy policies needed urgently, just look at the science

| By Chris Johnson
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Moruya bushfires

Natural disasters – such as bushfires – are forecast to become more dangerous in a time of rising temperatures. Photo: Karyn Starmer.

Heat-related deaths would more than double in some Australian cities and 1.5 million coastal residents will be displaced due to rising sea levels within 25 years, according to the very first National Climate Risk Assessment.

That 274-page report (with more than a thousand pages of accompanying submissions, research and analysis) was released on Monday (15 September) and provides sobering reading to say the least.

Climate Change and Energy Minister Chris Bowen described it as “confronting”, while the Climate Council has called it “terrifying”.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says it is a “wake-up call for anyone who denies the science of climate change”.

And in what can only be regarded as an understatement, Mr Bowen also added: “It means the national climate health strategy is important.”

This time around, there will be no excuses for getting climate change policy wrong.

The Federal Government will this week release its 2035 emissions reduction target.

Whether it and accompanying emissions reduction measures tackle the threats seriously enough is yet to be revealed.

If it doesn’t – if Labor doesn’t face this challenge front on with serious climate change initiatives – Australia’s future looks bleak.

The Coalition is still arguing within itself over whether climate change is serious enough for a net-zero emissions reduction by 2050 goal, let alone a 2035 interim target.

Frontbencher Andrew Hastie has just threatened to quit the shadow ministry if the Opposition doesn’t drop the net zero commitment.

That’s the last thing Opposition Leader Sussan Ley needs after last week’s Coalition upheaval.

Her initial response to the report’s release, however, has been weak and merely offers to “examine the assumptions” behind it while warning against “alarmist language” and Labor’s failures.

READ ALSO Ley’s Liberals want to write off a disastrous week, you think?

The Greens can apply serious pressure in the Senate, but they’re all but redundant in the Lower House.

Independents in the current parliamentary configurations have to join together to be properly heard.

So it’s up to this Labor Federal Government to get it right.

To put the future health and safety of Australia – its people, its places, its natural environment and species – ahead of the interests of big business, greed, wanton development and fossil fuels.

Whether Labor will deliver on that front is far from certain.

Look at the consequences if the right policies are not put in place now.

The report modelled the impacts of warming temperatures under three scenarios between 1.5°C and 3°C.

Heatwave deaths in Sydney would double under a 1.5 °C temperature warming increase and jump by a massive 444 per cent under a 3°C scenario.

Further south, in Melbourne, deaths from heatwaves would rise by 259 per cent under 3°C, and 60 per cent under 1.5°C warming.

That’s just a couple of state capitals on the coast. Regional localities would be hit even harder.

The report notes that warming in some locations across the continent has already reached 1.5°C.

Led by the Australian Climate Service, this inaugural assessment isn’t a flimsy or politically motivated piece of research.

It is real science, and the science is real.

It has modelled the impacts (health, economic and environmental) of increased heatwaves, droughts, storms, bushfires and floods on communities across Australia.

It’s not pretty reading.

And it is pretty clear in stating that we can no longer rely on past actions to help us survive what the future has in store if nothing is done about it.

READ ALSO No-go development zones promised in upgrade of environmental protection laws

Here are a few insights from the report that should shock the country into action.

“The country is likely to experience more intense and extreme climate hazards, and in some cases, in areas where people and places haven’t experienced these hazards before,” it states.

“Climate science indicates that our future extreme weather is likely to differ significantly from the past.

“Changes in the timing, duration, intensity and spatial patterns of hazards are likely, with many events occurring more frequently, in combination or affecting new locations.

“The change in distribution, timing and severity of extreme weather events means that historical observations on their own are not likely to be a good indicator of future risk.

“Australia currently experiences compounding and cascading hazards, and this is going to increase.

“Concurrent events and reduced time between severe events will become more common.”

Climate Council chief executive Amanda McKenzie says the government must cut coal, oil and gas emissions at the source, and legislate the strongest possible 2035 target. She is right.

Emergency Leaders for Climate Action, a group of 28 former state and territory fire and emergency chiefs, says we’re almost at the “point of no return”.

Founding member and former NSW Fire Commissioner, Greg Mullins, has called for an ambitious 2035 climate target and massive investment to prepare for “supercharged” weather events.

“This can’t just be another report that ministers read over a coffee and then try to forget about. The details are too confronting,” he said.

“Australians expect a strong national plan to act on this climate emergency, not a timid climate target.”

He is right, too.

Let’s hope, for all our sakes, that the Federal Government gets it right.

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Andrew McDonald10:30 am 18 Sep 25

Australia contributes 1% CO2 emissions globally. I do not think this has anything to do with the worlds climate cycling but if it did indeed have an impact how does our broke little nation spending billions we don’t have impact the weather globally? 99% of 3C is still 3C.
The money would be far better spent on the developing world gaining access to clean energy for cooking, heating, transport. Or simply education, in particular that of girls/young women. Historically a rise in women’s education & empowerment of their own bodies creates a better society & a decrease in population growth. Less humans = Less pollution. But no politician or journalist will talk about this, someone might be offended.

Small countries like Australia contribute 40% of emissions. This is a tired argument from the denialist playbook. If we don’t do our bit then we’re not going to cut emissions and we can’t also demand China and others do theirs.

Capital Retro12:05 pm 17 Sep 25

In the middle of the night on 24 June 1852, a catastrophic flood swept through the New South Wales town of Gundagai. The water rose quickly, destroying whole buildings and leaving people clinging in trees. Between 80 and 100 people drowned.

The town was rebuilt in a flood-free area after that.

The disaster is still the deadliest flood in Australia’s recorded history even though it happened over 170 years ago.

Unfortunately, there was no recorded history at the time that would have revealed previous flooding where the town was initially settled.

There is no excuse for people now to blame “climate change” for these natural events including bushfires because records compiled since colonisation of Australia clearly state that floods and bushfires occur every 50 years in certain areas but strangely, people ignore these records. They have become the “useful idiots” for the climate alarmist lobby.

None one has denied that floods have happened Capital. Merely pointed out that the severity and incidence has increased over time. Your whole premise is nonsense.

But for you to actually believe that people who accept the science on climate change are “useful idiots” you would have to believe that every major scientific body in the world is wrong on climate change.

Now that’s thousands of organisations across world. Doesn’t make much sense does it?

So to actually believe what you “believe” and it not just really being an extension of your culture wars based politics you would have to believe that thousands of scientific bodies across the world are in on some sort of conspiracy.

So which is it Capital? Either thousands of a major scientific bodies are wrong which makes no sense whatsoever or there’s a vast conspiracy…..that’s everyone from the CSIRO to Harvard to the Chinese Academy of Sciences to the Max Planck Society to NASA and the Pentagon.

“Useful idiots”?….indeed.

Phew CR, seano at least accepts that flooding occurs. 🛁

Another standard weak, snide vacuous comment from Penfold, his standard go to in lieu of an on point rebuttal of the argument. I’m not offend, just bored because they’re never funny…tedious.

But tbf you can’t rebut the point because you either have to admit that every major scientific body in the world is Not wrong on climate change or admit you’re a conspiracy theorist who can therefore be dismissed.

Genius stuff as always Penfold.

Capital Retro5:01 pm 17 Sep 25

Did it occur to you that it is no coincidence that all the people that create the science suggesting climate change are paid to do it by mainly governments who have been previously “done over” by the renewables lobby?

Governments are convinced we are doomed and are cheered on by the media and others to “take action against climate change”. Strangely, the only “action” deemed to be effective is reducing carbon emissions yet there is no scientific evidence that this will reduce temperatures that vary naturally from time to time.

And a nice try to suggest I said floods etc. hadn’t happened before like they are happening today. Once again, you ignore historical records in favour of the scientists’ unproven claims.

Maybe not a vast conspiracy as you suggest but a huge waste of resources.

‘Did it occur to you that it is no coincidence that all the people that create the science suggesting climate change are paid to do it by mainly governments who have been previously “done over” by the renewables lobby?’

No it did not because that would be silly.

Not only would it be impossible to hide such a conspiracy in individual organisations let alone thousands, what you’re suggesting would cross borders and include China and the Pentagon. Not exactly two entities likely to collude because they’ve been “done over” by the renewables lobby as you so glibly claim. It is not a rational position.

But thanks for at least admitting you are a conspiracy theorist. And like most conspiracy theorists you can be dismissed because your views have no basis in evidence, let alone reality.

“Did it occur to you that it is no coincidence that all the people that create the science suggesting climate change are paid to do it by mainly governments who have been previously “done over” by the renewables lobby?”

Yes, those “rich” scientists are clearly falsifying thousands and thousands of scientific studies globally just for their *checks notes* small research grants that they have to beg for yearly.

Meanwhile CR blindly ignores the trillions of dollars in commercial interests who benefit from pretending climate change isn’t real because of course they couldn’t be feeding him false information and talking points.

Apparently CR is the only one who can look at historic records that apparently scientists have never seen or assessed before 🤭

CR – Stephen Koonin, Obama’s Under Secretary of Sciewnce in the Dept of Energy and a known “expert” has been busy looking at what’s really happening. He’s written a book titled “Unsettled” and describes climate science as having a “dirty underbelly.”

He’s also co-author of a report this year – “The 151-page report by the Climate Working Group signals a 180-degree shift from the Biden administration’s climate focus, opening the aperture to theories and findings that might send Greta Thunberg into a coma.” The GBR and its recent record coral highs even rates a mention.

https://www.thefp.com/p/the-truth-about-climate-change-lies-middle-steve-koonin

seano – sorry you’re upset your own words were quoted back at you. But isn’t that far better than your tactic of making up words and attributing them to others ?

It’s actually Steven Koonin and his book has widely been debunked:
https://skepticalscience.com/review-koonin-unsettled.html

” sorry you’re upset your own words were quoted back at you.”…what words did you quote Penfold? On right you didn’t.

“But isn’t that far better than your tactic of making up words and attributing them to others ?”

Yet I directly quoted you and then as ever you use these weak, puerile tactics to misdirect and run away when the giant holes are pointed out in your nonsense.

Protip: Stop getting your “science” from cranks. Every major scientific body in the world is not wrong on climate change, unless you’re also a conspiracy theorist and can therefore be dismissed….oh right.

“To put the future health and safety of Australia – its people, its places, its natural environment and species – ahead of the interests of big business, greed, wanton development and fossil fuels.”
I’m glad you mentioned “natural environment and species” because it is not often mentioned and I feel sorry for the innocent creatures and plants that will go extinct because of human-induced climate change. They don’t have the luxury of air-conditioning when the heat waves strike.

Bowen expected to scare people with this report but the opposite had happened – we’re all laughing at him 😂

You can only cry wolf for so long. The UN has been doing it for 35 years. Countries haven’t disappeared, dams haven’t emptied, the GBR is as strong as ever, Antarctic ice is plentiful, crop yields have grown. Nobody believes the rhetoric any longer.

You don’t speak for sensible people.

Lol. How about this bloke – Shane Oliver, AMP Chief Executive on the supposed $600 billion hit to property values.

“I think that’s a gross exaggeration. Sure there’s a loss in some areas, but the demand will just be shifted somewhere else.”

So Penfold, you now accept that there will be a climate impact on property and are now debating how much it will be. Quite an evolution from someone who was cluelessly promoting hoax narratives until recently….kudos.

Lol again. Once again demand supply economics can be complicated can’t it 🙃

Once again, you were claiming climate change is a hoax now you want to debate the level of impacts.

Genius stuff as always Penfold….lol

Nope, once again the porkies come out. Why do you resort to dishonesty ?

You literally quoted Shane Oliver arguing over the cost of property loss:
“I think that’s a gross exaggeration. Sure there’s a loss in some areas, but the demand will just be shifted somewhere else.”

So you accept climate change impacts and now you’re just debating the cost.

You can apologise any time.

Oh I see what you’re getting at. You think the statement “demand will be shifted somewhere else” is not a zero-sum game.

Refer to previous references to demand supply economics 🤣

Tedious as ever. That’s not what I’m saying as you well know.

You’re using Oliver’s suggestion that the impact of climate change on the property market will shift elsewhere in the market, whilst as the same time denying any such impacts are possible as a climate change denying conspiracist. Ludicrously hypocritical.

And you haven’t even got what Oliver is saying right, it’s not a “zero sum” game for those who have affected property when the value in the market shifts elsewhere as suggested by Oliver.

As I said you don’t speak for sensible people.

None of the geniuses rejecting the report out of hand can prove any of their nonsense claims…posting comments like “fraud” without evidence is just embarrassing.

Imagine ignoring science which we all depend on for our very existences and rejecting every major scientific body in the world on climate change, to put your faith in online culture wars nonsense (and confirmation bias) and thinking that you actually care about your kids and grandkids.

That’s some special cognitive dissonance right there.

HiddenDragon8:18 pm 16 Sep 25

This is primarily about domestic politics. If Labor was as fraught about this issue as they pretend to be, Watt would not have approved the North West Shelf project extension and they would not be importing hundreds of thousands of people per year from countries with lower (in many cases much lower) per capita emissions than Australia.

The focus should be on adaptation measures, and doing no more than is in our immediate economic interest (i.e. it will clearly pay for itself in the short/medium term) or is necessary to avoid net zero being weaponised against us for trade/tariff purposes, which some would try, in spite of the truth about what is happening elsewhere (and not just in China/India/US) –

“But what are other countries doing? Answer: mostly slacking off!

Donald Trump’s United States has given up entirely, and of the 175 countries that signed in Paris, only 27 have submitted their third NDC so far.

And to be honest, most are a mess.

Many of them are full of excuses and conditions, and finding the 2035 target in most of them is a challenge.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-09-15/albanese-government-2035-climate-emissions-target/105771566

Bennett Bennett6:24 pm 16 Sep 25

Australian residents are being run into the ground by well-off left leaning politicians from urban areas. Young people are being ripped off, old people are being ripped off. SNAFU.

I find this article to be strange. Hayden Walker has predicted another wet summer with lower temperatures, and today I read a prediction that yet another La Niña is about to be declared. Is there anybody who went through the last two freezing cold winters in Canberra seriously believing that the temperature is rising? We have an almost permanent negative Indian Ocean dipole which is coming diagonally down the continent and affecting Canberra and the south-east. We have constant flooding and East Coast lows. This whole climate change thing is turning out vastly different to what the scientists and so-called experts were predicting 20 years ago. If anything, the climate is getting colder and a lot wetter

I just want to point out that with China, the world’s biggest carbon emitter, significantly lagging it’s 2060 net zero target; the US, the world’s second biggest carbon emitter having scrapped it’s national net zero target; and India, the world’s 3rd biggest carbon emitter, having a net zero target of 2070 that it’s not going to come close to achieving – Australia is likely to feel the effects of climate change regardless of our own efforts to reduce emissions.

Small countries like Australia combine to make up 40% of emissions if we don’t do our bit it won’t matter what China does.

Meanwhile China invested $818bn USD in clean energy in 2024 alone:
https://www.weforum.org/stories/2025/07/chinas-green-transformation

And clean energy now contributes 10% of China’s GDP:
https://energyandcleanair.org/analysis-clean-energy-contributed-a-record-10-of-chinas-gdp-in-2024

Also Trump beclowning himself on climate and energy (amongst other things) is hardly going to matter because California is the world’s 4th largest economy and they don’t give rats what stupidity comes from Trump.

These anti-action on climate change arguments straight out of the denialist play book pushing the line of “can’t win don’t try” are dated and wrong, time to let them go.

Capital Retro4:50 pm 16 Sep 25

But China is a developing country and as such is entitled to concessions about reducing emissions.

I think they can claim climate reparations from wealthy countries like Australia.

Capital, not all of us live in your nonsense universe I’m afraid. If you’ve got something sensible add I’ll be happy to hear it.

As pointed out above in the real world, China invested $818m US in 2024 alone and are already generating 10% of their GDP from clean energy.

Seano, just pointing out reality. A lot of the climate activists in Australia talk like we can save ourselves from the effects of climate change when we can’t. It’s a whole of humanity issue. China has been building electricity generation of all types – renewables, fossil fuels and nuclear because they need energy. They’ve been a cynical player in this from the start, seeing the west’s commitment to net zero as a business opportunity for them to get one up on us. And they’ve succeeded with most of the carbon emissions savings from western countries just being exported to Asia.

The position we’ve gotten ourselves into is one where we have aging coal power plants that are scheduled to be phased out before we’ll have enough replacements of whatever stripe online. SA has demonstrated the fragility of renewables only, the saving grace being the connection to the eastern grid which is still majority fossil fuels. Spain has likewise demonstrated the fragility of renewables only, but they have a connection to the greater European grid. Here in Canberra we saw a significant increase in blackouts compared to last winter. Our grid is likely to become more unreliable into the future as we become more dependent on renewables that lack sufficient base load generation to back them up and sufficient storage to see us through wind droughts in winter. That’s coincidentally the time when solar panels are least productive and energy demand for heating soars.

The obvious answer should have been nuclear plus renewables, but it really needs bipartisan support and the legislative barriers should have been removed in the Rudd-Gillard time frame. As we stand now, I’m starting to seriously consider solar panels plus battery storage for the first time. Not because I think it will help save us from climate change, but because I don’t want to risk losing power more often and for longer periods as the reliability of our grid further degrades, and as the costs for mains power keep increasing.

Our federal parliament has let us down badly for 20 years, with one side having too many climate change deniers for too long and the other unwilling to embrace the carbon free base load alternative to coal. Both major parties have embraced population growth through immigration to varying degrees, with Albo taking the prize. We should have been addressing how we produce the goods and services we need without the immigration ponzi scheme – ie economic productivity reforms. More people means more demand for energy and makes it harder to get emissions down.

Garfield,
There should ne reasonable balance in the proposed actions we take versus the economic costs and benefits.

This is a reasonable position to hold.

But you’ve then gone off on a tangent of incorrect and misleading talking points sourced straight from the climate change deniers you apparently deride.

SA has shown how a majority renewables grid can work with minimal risk, although you are apparently fixated on a single event where renewables were shown not to be the cause.

Ditto for your claims about Spain.

You mention the grid interconnectors as “saving” areas, when they are the exact control measures you put in place to provide reliability in a transitioning grid. These are not an accident or luck, it’s by design as the transition to renewables occurs.

You then conflate localised distribution electricity infrastructure failures in Canberra as if they have anything to do with generation supply problems, when they simply dont.

And then you promote Nuclear power, the most expensive option as some sort of saviour, which flies in the face of all evidence.

Promote sensible and steady change, but they should at least be based on facts and evidence.

Garfield your first sentence promised “reality” your second devolves into opinion and nonsense ….the rest is pretty well critiqued above by Chewy.

The nuclear power nonsense is a particular tell though that you don’t know what you’re talking about Garfield. The energy generators & retailers rejected Dutton’s nuclear plan, too slow, too expensive, too problematic (like seriously were do we get the water from in Australia) and too risky. These are for profit companies not “climate activists”. Likewise the QLD LNP government (hardly left wingers) rejected nuclear power plants for QLD.

The fact that you’re banging on about nuclear, something that was DOA even before Dutton stupidly tided his electoral fortunes to it (and allowing Jacinta Price to comment unchecked on policy) suggests you’re commenting from the usual clueless culture wars perspective.

chewy, SA says it’s something like 75% renewable energy now. On 21 & 22 May it was down to half that at 38% renewable and 62% coal & gas. It had to import from Vic which on the same days had to use 78% fossil fuels. That exposes the fragility of renewables only. Generation can fall to less than half the average over multiple days which necessitates massive storage reserves. If the whole eastern grid was renewables, we’d need to have a full days storage available for a major renewables shortfall plus extra for minor shortfalls before the storage could be replaced. When I googled how long Australia’s grid could run on battery storage the most useful part of the answer was that a 100% renewables grid would want at least 24 days of storage. I don’t know what sources that’s drawing upon so it may be over the top, but it seems clear that even at the conservative end we’d need to build at least 100 times the storage we have now. Maybe you can tell me what AEMO is allowing for in its costings reports? As a follow up, I googled how much it would cost to build 24 days storage for Australia. The answer I got was that 24 days couldn’t be done, as just to provide a full days storage would cost around $1T. Thus the need for base load power to balance out peaks and troughs in renewables generation.

Furthermore, the government’s plan to have enough renewables online to replace coal plants at their scheduled shut down dates relies on massive offshore wind projects, which are not being taken up anywhere near the rate needed. That shortfall in interest could be linked to some UK offshore wind projects proving to be more costly than nuclear over their expected lives according to a macrobusiness.com.au article I read. Surely government expectations on those projects being viable would be based in part on AEMO costings? At the moment they still looking like they’re under shooting the full cost of renewables. We’re likely to reach a real crunch next decade where we’ll have to further extend coal plants that are past end of life or face regular rolling blackouts.

Canberra’s increase in blackouts this winter was due to a combination of record breaking cold; population growth; electrification; network capacity limitations and intermittent power generation. The grid’s inability to cope led to rolling blackouts and intermittent outages.

As for the cost of nuclear, Labor’s costings used at the election were a joke. They reminded me of the ACT Labor claim that a new Canberra stadium would cost $2-3b. When it comes to nuclear I look at this like the carbon emissions of offshore freight. I don’t see how that’s going to reach zero without shifting to nuclear propulsion. Similarly, according to both major parties we’re going to have nuclear submarines. Currently, Australia doesn’t have a nuclear engineering capability aside from the very limited one with Lucas Heights. That’s going to change, and when it does those cost estimates for nuclear power are going to come down. In other words, the cost of the first couple of nuclear plants would likely be eye watering, but would become more reasonable as more were built.

“On 21 & 22 May it was down to half that at 38% renewable and 62% coal & gas. It had to import from Vic which on the same days had to use 78% fossil fuels. That exposes the fragility of renewables only. Generation can fall to less than half the average over multiple days which necessitates massive storage reserves.”

This just shows an ignorance of the system and transition plan. Of course more generation capacity of different types and storage is needed as older fossil fuel generators are decommissioned. No one is saying the current grid is the way it will be in 10-20 years. It doesn’t show “fragility” of anything, there’s nothing inherently better or more reliable about the existing fossil fuel generation sources, that simply shows a bias to the way the current grid has been set up around them.

Your comments around required storage are then a follow on from these mistaken assumptions, they don’t reflect the proposed grid design, different generation sources, different firming technologies and ways that reliable supply can be provided with firmed intermittent generation. There’s not much point in talking about your assumptions for storage requirements, costs and the need for “base load” power because they don’t reflect reality.

As I’ve also said here previously, dispatchable gas generation will and should help fill the gap as the transition occurs, so it’s not like fossil fuels will be disappearing overnight either. Same goes with batteries, there are other dispatchable firming technologies available over different required supply timeframes. No one sensible is suggesting that the grid will be supplied by one technology.

Your point around transition risks are valid, but all it really means is that the government’s headline targets for renewable generation won’t be fully met on time and more interim solutions (like the gas plants I’ve mentioned above) could be required to operate more often. This is really neither here nor there unless the government mandates that they are willing to downgrade power supply reliability standards to meet arbitrary emissions targets at a specific date.

Market costs will vary, but just like you say offshore wind costs have increased due to increased construction costs, solar and battery prices have significantly reduced. That is the entire point of a free market.

By the by, the same construction cost impacts are being felt by nuclear and fossil fuel projects so it isn’t just affecting renewables.

Canberra’s increase in blackouts has literally nothing to do with increased intermittent generation and I’m not sure how you think it is. Remember, the grid is still being mostly fed by fossil fuel generators. The other issues you mention are around local distribution supply and capacity which would and is the same regardless of the grid generation source. The electrification impacts and removal of gas are real, but also don’t reflect anything around renewable generation reliability.

As for the cost of nuclear, the Gencost figures are sourced from real work comparable projects, so to call them a joke is to ignore reality. There’s actually a far more realistic risk that they will be far more expensive than estimated, particularly for the initial plants. They would all need to be located near reliable water supply, which is exactly where most of our population lives, how do you think residents are going to react to plans to build nuclear anywhere near them?

As above, no private company wants to go anywhere near plans for nuclear because any project would need to be underwritten and guaranteed profits by the government. They simply don’t stack up economically, aren’t needed and would be delivered far too late to make a difference. You even acknowledge this above with your point around transition risks, a 2040 nuclear plant won’t really make a difference.

While it may come as a shock to some, science isn’t the words “the science” being bandied around in the media.

Additionally, note how “the science” curiously bears a resemblance to self-contradictory leftism – there being nothing in all of human history as self-contradictory as it:

climate change “the science” says that climate change causes unpredictable short-term weather, and then makes long-term climate predictions that could only be accurate if short-term weather was predictable.

Leftist self-contradictorialness-less-ness, which has nothing to with real science

Enjoy your neo-communist utopia, climate warriors

What a load of nonsense, and nescience.

Andy Schultz2:21 pm 16 Sep 25

Got it… so unless science can predict the future with complete accuracy it is entirely useless

ok then Axoh/Iron-stein

let’s play a little game.

Predict long-term temps with absolutely no reference to short-term ones.

Not even the slightest little hint. Grrrrrrr

If you can do it, you’ll win a lovely little lab-made meat tray,
and if you fail you have to wear an “EVs suck” t’shirt.

What’s it going to be, climate warrior?!!!!!

What sort of question is that supposed to be?

What else would you do but look at longer term changes
to deal with short term noise in the signal?

Define short term.

A week is a short term period. Should all weeks be excluded?

I am no more a “climate warrior” than I am a “don’t walk in front of moving busses warrior”. I observe reality and respond accordingly.

What do you do?

Andy Schultz4:34 pm 16 Sep 25

Sure – firstly I’ll just clarify – literally nobody talks about temperatures as short and long term. I think what you are trying to say is weather (i.e. short term) and climate (i.e. long term).

And that distinction is exactly the point: weather is the roll of a single dice, while climate is what you get when you look at the entire bucket of dice rolls over time. No serious climate scientist is claiming they can tell you if it’ll rain at 3 pm next Tuesday in 2050 — that’s weather. What they can do, with high confidence, is show you that if you load the dice (say by pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere), then over decades the average rolls are going to skew higher, and heatwaves, bushfire seasons, and coral bleaching become more frequent and severe.

So, predicting climate doesn’t mean ignoring short-term variability — it means understanding it averages out over time. Just like you can’t predict the outcome of the next coin toss, but you can confidently say that 10,000 tosses will be about 50/50 heads and tails.

If you want to call that a “game,” fine — but it’s one where physics keeps winning, whether or not anyone’s wearing a novelty T-shirt.

Bzzzz

That’s the wrong answer, gentlemen.

Before man-made climate change “the science”, weather was predictable, including the predictable small inaccuracies. Now, in the era of climate change “the science”, whether has been designated unpredictable, meaning there’s no way of knowing if it will be predictable again or whether it will be 10% – 100% unpredictable on any given day.

As science undoubtedly relies on the regularity or dependability of nature, and attempts at climate predictions can’t be made without reference to irregular and not-dependable weather, climate change “the science” is shot to bits.

The most scientific statement that the current crop could make is that the weather appears to be unpredictable and to leave it at that.

Andy Schultz8:14 am 17 Sep 25

What you’ve said is simply false. Forecasting has improved dramatically over time, driven by advances in computing power and data quality. More importantly, your argument contradicts itself: you dismiss climate science as unreliable, yet acknowledge increasing variability in weather—that’s exactly what climate science predicts.

Popular climate science predicts warmer temperatures, hence the constant fear mongering about reaching boiling point. I acknowledge only weather variability or unpredictability, in both temperatures and conditions. After that, I admit nothing, which is sensible, not contradictory.

But suppose popular climate science was predicting variability or unpredictability in the future. This would still be nonsense because it would be doing so based on variable or unpredictable weather. But as I said, variable or unpredictable weather is just that: variable and unpredictable; meaning you don’t know if it will ever be predictable again or if it will be 1% – 100% unpredictable on a given day; and such variability or unpredictability can say nothing about future temperatures or conditions. Saying otherwise would amount to saying “it was only this unpredictable today, therefore it will only be that unpredictable tomorrow” but in the absence of a scientific methodology to support that claim, it’s a logical fallacy and is therefore unscientific.

We were told that man-made climate change was going to increase future temperatures by X number of degrees and that what we could expect were hot and dry conditions. And yet what we’ve gotten instead is an overall increase of temperatures thar are only a fraction of what X was predicted to be, and a mixed bag of conditions ranging from hot/cold, dry/wet, to never snowing again/bumper ski seasons – which is a reflection of the unpredictability of short-term and long-term weather forecasts.

The purpose of science is to take an independent variable and be able to know what to expect from it. But given that climate change scientists demonstrably have no idea what’s going on with CO2 – AND COULDN’T KNOW GIVEN THE UNPREDICTABILITY OF CLIMATE-RELATED WEATHER – it’s safe to say that what they’re doing isn’t science.

Vasily M, that is an awful lot of words to betray your ignorance of science and of statistics.

Tell the world’s climate scientists (not to mention scientists in all other fields) that they are all wrong. You are keen on writing so why haven’t you sent off your letters yet?

just provide arguments Axon instead cutsie little love letters like this one. If I’m wrong, I want to know where and how

actually, while I’m waiting for my first response to Axon’s love letter to be published, I might as well save everyone some time and say that I think there are some contradictions in my approach this time – as Andy suggested – and that I’ll have to refine it or abandon it altogether.

VITALLY IMPORTANT: this is no way conceding to the popular climate change narrative, but simply to say that my approach this time may not be solid

Thank you

“I want to know where and how” you’ve been constantly demonstrated to be wrong on a range of issues including climate change and that has stopped you posting nonsense, so this would be a first.

climate.nasa.gov/evidence

Vasily M, untangling your word salads will be difficult when you do not appear to understand fundamental concepts of science. It is also not my problem to prove how limp are your salads. It is yours to demonstrate that over 99% of the world’s climate scientists and institutions are wrong.

Hmm, all those windfarms in heavily forested areas. Nothing to worry about then

That is odd. I thought you were last complaining about them being on top of hills and on the plains?

A wind farm in the middle of a low-lying forest would be pretty inefficient. Were you worried about trees growing offshore?

Wind farms are normally above or beyond any significant tree line. That is part of site selection.

According to science, cold-related deaths outnumber heat-related ones by a ratio of 9 to 1.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2542519625000543#:~:text=A%20global%20analysis%20showed%20that,to%20about%205%20million%20deaths.&text=In%20most%20epidemiological%20studies%2C%20excess%20cold%20deaths%20far%20outnumber%20heat%20deaths.

So based on the NCRA report, thousands more Aussies will survive under the 3 degree scenario. 3,520% more than the fatalities in fact.

Any comment, Mr Bowen ?

Unable to read, again, Penfold?

In that report, risk of death from extreme heat is around five times the risk of death from extreme cold. The ratio you quote relies on there being far more cold days. As an exercise, trade half the cold days for hot and you have far more total deaths owing to the smaller reduction in cold-related deaths and much larger increase in heat-related.

To quote the report’s conclusion: “given the current climate trends … the current epidemiological literature strongly suggests that an urgent focus on heat-related deaths is well justified.”

Couldn’t find anything to support your comment Axon. Though did find this:

“In most epidemiological studies, excess cold deaths far outnumber heat deaths. In that same global analysis, of the 9·4% attributable temperature-related deaths, 8·5% (range 6·2–10·5%) were cold-related and only 0·9% (range 0·6–1·4%) were heat-related,2 which corresponds to approximately 4·6 million deaths from cold and about 489 000 from heat, a ratio of roughly 9:1 of cold versus heat.”

This is pretty funny. Penfold has just confirmed directly my comment “Unable to read, again, Penfold?”

While noting that the ratiometric difference is strongly attributable to the far greater frequency of cold than hot days, the report continues:
“In Barcelona, the optimal temperature was 23·6°C with the risk increasing steadily for mildly cold days and sharply for hot days.” Note the words “mildly” for cold and “sharply” for hot.
They continue:
“We can assess the relative risk compared with the optimal temperature. During the study period in Barcelona, the coldest day had an average temperature of 1·4°C. On this day, the risk of cardiovascular death increased by 50% (relative risk 1·5) compared with the optimal temperature. Conversely, the hottest day had an average temperature of 32·1°C, which was associated with a 240% increase in cardiovascular death risk (relative risk 2·4)”
It is easy to see from those percentages that a hypothetical shift toward warmer temperatures will kill far more than it “saves”.

By the way, Barcelona is the same relative latitude as Launceston, not Sydney or other capitals. Deaths from cold are rarer as you go north in Australia.

For explicit charts, see at the bottom of the article, before the References, “Supplementary Material” –> “Download: Download Acrobat PDF file”
(Title is: 1-s2.0-S2542519625000543-mmc1.pdf”).

You always fail at references, Penfold, nothing new here. Good that you have directly admitted it by saying you could not find the detail I mention, or the conclusion that “an urgent focus on heat-related deaths is well justified.”

“Deaths from cold are rarer as it gets hotter” …. oh sorry …. “as you go north in Australia”. Thanks Axon, splendid contribution.

Now if you’re going to try to convince us that the 9:1 cold versus heat figure is somehow invalid, might i suggest using something evidentiary ?

Btw it was “mildly cold days”, not “mildly for cold days”. So as things get hotter, there’s a greater impact. Nobody is arguing against that but unfortunately you’ve completely missed the point. Which is pretty simple – for each heat-related fatality, there’s nine others still with us.

Don’t you love Chris Bowen “assessments”.

The evidence I laid out lacks only from your incapacity to read and understand it, not that you ever want to do so.

“So as things get hotter, there’s a greater impact. Nobody is arguing against that…”
Good, you are not denying a basic point but you were unable to read the multipliers cited or the curves in the charts I referenced. It is unfortunate I cannot post charts directly but here is the reference again: see at the bottom of the article, before the References, “Supplementary Material” –> “Download: Download Acrobat PDF file”
(Title is: 1-s2.0-S2542519625000543-mmc1.pdf”). A couple of easy charts show the true difference between heat and cold effects quite clearly.

As temperatures rise, Penfold’s claim that “for each heat-related fatality, there’s nine others still with us” is a simple case of innumeracy. What a surprise.

So, the department created to report a climate “emergency” reported a climate “emergency” (when the only other choice was to report that their department was redundant and therefore a waste of taxpayer money) – “real $cience” at work

Speaking of real science Bill, the author here claims the report is “more than a thousand pages”.

Its last page is 274. Though it’s probably more a maths thing than science.

http://www.acs.gov.au/pages/national-climate-risk-assessment

Chris Johnson2:12 pm 16 Sep 25

Hey Penfold, you’re right on this one. I was referring to the overall analysis accompanying the release. I’ve clarified that now. What’s maths?

Fair enough Chris. I could only see links for the summary and the full report. Maths is the page count.

Downloaded the report last night and had a squiz. There’s lots of dark pictures, and some flame red ones too. There’s no doubt that Chris Bowen has dialled up the volume to 11. We should be afraid, very afraid.

In Sydney your chances of dying from climate change will be 440% higher in the future. The report didn’t specify how many fewer deaths from cold would occur.

Climate change doesn’t like demand and supply economics in relation to property values either, which will apparently be $611 billion lower in 2050 (doesn’t that help housing affordability ?)

That old chestnut the Great Barrier Reef gets another guernsey – despite record coral coverage last year it’s right in the firing line. The oceans will, of course, rise up and swallow Aussie houses. One million of them in all likelihood.

Perhaps it is real science, though let’s leave the last word to Grattan Institute Energy lead Tony Wood, who stated with reference to the predictions “We don’t know how things are going to unfold. And you tend to be …. but you tend to be making it up.”

Source the quote for context, Penfold.

Capital Retro9:54 am 16 Sep 25

“It is real science, and the science is real.”

Does this mean that to date, we have only been getting fake science about climate change?

It means the same as it always did, that you never want to know.

But haven’t you heard CR, we’re at the “point of no return”.

About the 24th by my count.

Yes, that’s what 50+ years of failed predictions would tend to suggest.

Changes are happening as predicted by a consensus of climate scientists. Cherry-picking more alarmist statements from people who were just trying to get your attention is irrelevant.

Capital Retro9:52 am 16 Sep 25

“Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says it is a “wake-up call for anyone who denies the science of climate change”.

Hello, Albo? Wake up calls ceased 13 years ago.

https://www.news.com.au/national/wake-up-australia-telstras-phone-alarm-service-put-to-sleep/news-story/338b52094938cc5d4553eb704a70b07e

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