High speed German autos seized

KB1971 said :

caf said :

The feel and sound of the doors being closed in modern cars is specifically engineered to give that “expensive feel”. The manufacturers spend a lot on it because they know that a satisfying clunk sells cars. It doesn’t actually indicate anything about how well it’s made.

Ahh not really, vehicles are built heavier in these areas now for increased occupant protection, the heaveier doors are a result. One of the reasons why your bog stock Commodore has increased from 1200kg to over 1500kg in the last 10 years.

European cars have led the world in occupant protection for decades hence the reason Mercs have the clunk as you close the door.

Yes, really. Here’s one article that mentions the practice. You’re being conditioned and manipulated more than you realise.

Further to my last….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxhtbjYGrI4

Fools, there was no way they’d have gotten away with those speeds in German cars! They needed MOPAR power to have any chance of escape, as we all know it takes a MOPAR to catch a MOPAR and the plods don’t have any!!

HenryBG said :

harvyk1 said :

p1 said :

The Merc is far less likely to end up wrapped around a tree than the Oz/Jap-crap white Commodore is.

quote]

I do take exception to the Jap-crap part though. As there are many good japanese cars around. Even of the performance older variety. Often with modified suspension for superior handling, upgraded brakes, performance tyres with far better grip, and even a roll-cage in some cases. All up, these modifications can make the Jap-crap car perform better than a new more expensive Merc. Especially since they would weigh considerably less and brake to a stop far quicker with the decent brakes and sticky tyres. And swerve around obstacles with ease with the massively upgraded handling.

I find it odd that some of those modifications are targetted by police. I mean maybe a massive supercharger sticking out of the bonnet blocking your view and making the car difficult to handle could be a bad thing, but better brakes, suspension, tyres, wider wheels etc. All are safety measures.

PoQ said :

HenryBG said :

PoQ said :

You can come unstuck at any speed.

And the bloke driving a well-engineered German car is less likely to come unstuck than the bloke driving a bodged-together bit of crap like a Commodore.

Do you understand this point, or not?

Aww, get off your high-horse, before you rear-end a bus.

How is that being on a high horse? Wouldn’t he have to be making moral judgements about other people to be on a high horse? I got the impression he was discussing the physical elements at play.

Oh, and having owned a brand new Crumadore (traded it in after 6mths for my current VW) I know i’d rather be in a VW, Merc or Audi in a highspeed accident (speed limit, not silly driving) rather than the Holden any day of the week.

I got rear ended in my old Audi and there was minimal damage to the car (and me) whereas any other car would have been a write off..

No, sorry its Australian laws not allowing it to go that fast…

I’ve driven in Audi’s / VW’s / Merc’s and a Mazda 323 (95 model) on the autobahn and all performed exceptionally well at 160kp/h+

The Mazda less so than the newer cars, the Audi A6 I drove loved 220 though.

Agree that 160 on Belconnen Way is excessive, but overall, our speed limits across the highways are a bit too low for safe autobahn driving.

Chief Ten Beers said :

Those particular German cars are designed and *built* to go that fast. Unfortunately, just not on the roads in Australia.

HenryBG said :

PoQ said :

You can come unstuck at any speed.

And the bloke driving a well-engineered German car is less likely to come unstuck than the bloke driving a bodged-together bit of crap like a Commodore.

Do you understand this point, or not?

Aww, get off your high-horse, before you rear-end a bus.

PoQ said :

You can come unstuck at any speed.

And the bloke driving a well-engineered German car is less likely to come unstuck than the bloke driving a bodged-together bit of crap like a Commodore.

Do you understand this point, or not?

Sgt.Bungers said :

PoQ said :

I’m more concerned that Mr Griffiths called the vehicles in question “autos”. The ACT Policing doesn’t mention whether the cars were automatics or manuals, and in either case, why would the car’s gearbox decide the headline?

All of my automobile’s have manual transmissions 🙂

Same. If they were automatic, they deserved to be seized. lol

2.0 said :

Are you serious?

Are you an American?

I don’t actually care that two dills got sprung for “furious driving” (however that’s defined). The Majesty of The Law will grind on for the amusment of onlookers. At least this time round no-one was hurt.

You can come unstuck at any speed. Ask the horse who rear-ended a bus [http://www.news-leader.com/article/20120327/NEWS01/303270081/buggy-crash-missouri?odyssey=nav|head].

Of course, I may be ignoring Poe’s Law. In which case may I refer you to [http://christwire.org/] Enjoy!

PoQ said :

I’m more concerned that Mr Griffiths called the vehicles in question “autos”. The ACT Policing doesn’t mention whether the cars were automatics or manuals, and in either case, why would the car’s gearbox decide the headline?

All of my automobile’s have manual transmissions 🙂

2.0 said :

What exactly is ‘furious driving’? is that now a reference from Fast and the Furious

I would say it’s a deliberately vauge term to be able to lay additional charges on anyone who’s driving like a twat 🙂

PoQ said :

I’m more concerned that Mr Griffiths called the vehicles in question “autos”. The ACT Policing doesn’t mention whether the cars were automatics or manuals, and in either case, why would the car’s gearbox decide the headline?

Are you serious?

I’m more concerned that Mr Griffiths called the vehicles in question “autos”. The ACT Policing doesn’t mention whether the cars were automatics or manuals, and in either case, why would the car’s gearbox decide the headline?

harvyk1 said :

fragge said :

I think he was referring to the control one has travelling in a Mercedes E500 versus a Holden VL Commodore at 180km/h and its impact on the chances of having a fatal collision.

That only really applies out on a race track where the conditions are controlled and your not likely to have someone pull out in front of you. Once you take to the roads at those speeds all bets are off. Sure the steering, handling and brakes are better in a decent merc than a 20 year old shit box, but it doesn’t mean squat when the reason you need to swerve is to avoid running into someone doing half your speed.

Even someone with a very good reaction time of 300ms (so 0.3 of a second) still travels at full speed of 160km/h for 14 meters before they can even register that something happened. Given it’s an 80 zone, that means that in the 0.3 of a second from the moment they noticed there was a danger, to the point they started reacting the car travelled 7 meters closer.

Given the average person is looking all around, it is highly likely that they may take 2 to 3 seconds to actually notice a danger, especially if that danger is 100 meters in front of them. Therefore assuming a good case scenario of a car pulling into your lane 100 meters in front of you, you’ll have travelled 66 meters closer, that then gives you approx 36 meters in which to react in, again all the time your doing 160km/h, so given you have a reaction time of 500 milliseconds (and some experts believe it can be as high as 1.5 seconds, thus the 2 second rule), your now down to 14 meters, or more to the point 0.65 seconds from rear ending the car in front (assuming that the car in front is still doing 80km/h).

Given that braking distance happens as a curve (so the largest amount of braking is done in the last few meters) it’s unlikely that the difference between your shitbox and your merc would be more than a few km/h at the point of impact.

Sorry to burst your bubble over how good cars really are, but the fact remains, it doesn’t really matter how expensive or good your car is, if you do high speeds on roads where people are not expecting it, expensive car or shit box, it’s just as likely to end up a crumple wreak at the side of the road…

I totally agree with you that these guys are muppets who were endangering us all. But you make some pretty big assumptions trying to argue your case, which I am going to leave for now
’cause I’m posting from a phone.

So these guys get their cars taken away, fare enough. But the drink drivers don’t, right…?

And that’s not even mentioning the effect good tyres can have on braking performance.

fragge said :

I think he was referring to the control one has travelling in a Mercedes E500 versus a Holden VL Commodore at 180km/h and its impact on the chances of having a fatal collision.

That only really applies out on a race track where the conditions are controlled and your not likely to have someone pull out in front of you. Once you take to the roads at those speeds all bets are off. Sure the steering, handling and brakes are better in a decent merc than a 20 year old shit box, but it doesn’t mean squat when the reason you need to swerve is to avoid running into someone doing half your speed.

Even someone with a very good reaction time of 300ms (so 0.3 of a second) still travels at full speed of 160km/h for 14 meters before they can even register that something happened. Given it’s an 80 zone, that means that in the 0.3 of a second from the moment they noticed there was a danger, to the point they started reacting the car travelled 7 meters closer.

Given the average person is looking all around, it is highly likely that they may take 2 to 3 seconds to actually notice a danger, especially if that danger is 100 meters in front of them. Therefore assuming a good case scenario of a car pulling into your lane 100 meters in front of you, you’ll have travelled 66 meters closer, that then gives you approx 36 meters in which to react in, again all the time your doing 160km/h, so given you have a reaction time of 500 milliseconds (and some experts believe it can be as high as 1.5 seconds, thus the 2 second rule), your now down to 14 meters, or more to the point 0.65 seconds from rear ending the car in front (assuming that the car in front is still doing 80km/h).

Given that braking distance happens as a curve (so the largest amount of braking is done in the last few meters) it’s unlikely that the difference between your shitbox and your merc would be more than a few km/h at the point of impact.

Sorry to burst your bubble over how good cars really are, but the fact remains, it doesn’t really matter how expensive or good your car is, if you do high speeds on roads where people are not expecting it, expensive car or shit box, it’s just as likely to end up a crumple wreak at the side of the road…

harvyk1 said :

p1 said :

They cared enough about their safety to by very well made cars, rather then doing the same thing in white Commodores of unknown pedigree.

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

Airbags \ seatbelts and crumple zones only go so far in protecting the driver from an almost instant deceleration.

Not to mention that a merc running into another car will do a similar amount of bad to the other innocent driver as a commy running into another car.

However watching a merc getting crushed would probably be far more soul destroying for the owner (who would most likely still need to pay out their lease and the balloon at the end) compared to the owner of a shitbox.

I think he was referring to the control one has travelling in a Mercedes E500 versus a Holden VL Commodore at 180km/h and its impact on the chances of having a fatal collision.

So you’re saying Belconnen Way isn’t an autobahn? That needs to be better signposted, or so the defense team may argue.

FFS….160kmh on Belconnen Way @ 4pm … so glad they were Teutonic made vehicles

A lot of “European” cars are now built in Asia and Latin America. The original Holden Cruze was built in Korea. I have a Renault which was made in Asia (Turkey).
I have been told that the guage of metal panel pressings used is cars made in Australia is heavier than cars made anywhere else in the world. I have see people lean and sit on front mudguards (or fenders) of imported cars and they buckle. Never seen that happen with an Australian made Holden or Falcon, Magna, Valiant etc.)
Large trees do not discriminate between these differences.

Tooks said :

Deref said :

How TF do those whippersnappers afford cars like that?

31 and 34 are whippersnappers?!

Doesn’t say what year model they were driving. You can get a 2002 Merc E500 for under $40k and an Audi S3 for about the same.

An original 8L S3 (similar age to the E500 in question) could be had for $20K and change I reckon. And, as you say, should be able to find a newer 8P model for $40K or less without too much trouble.

I wonder what the rego was on the Merc. There’s been an E500 muppetly-parked in the Canberra Centre a few times, first time I saw it the front left tyre was slung over the little concrete barrier at the end of the space. This one’s rego had two letters followed by a digit repeated four times.

dungfungus said :

HenryBG said :

harvyk1 said :

p1 said :

They cared enough about their safety to by very well made cars, rather then doing the same thing in white Commodores of unknown pedigree.

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

Airbags \ seatbelts and crumple zones only go so far in protecting the driver from an almost instant deceleration.

Not to mention that a merc running into another car will do a similar amount of bad to the other innocent driver as a commy running into another car.

However watching a merc getting crushed would probably be far more soul destroying for the owner (who would most likely still need to pay out their lease and the balloon at the end) compared to the owner of a shitbox.

The Merc is far less likely to end up wrapped around a tree than the Oz/Jap-crap white Commodore is.

Having said that, I recall the Russian family that was wiped out one night on Bowen Drive. They were in a Merc. The tree that took them out was actually removed about 2 years ago – “end of an era”, I thought to myself.

The Russian Merc was running on Vodka. The car was taken to the police holding yard in Fyshwick and a lot of the public saw it. Very sobering.

Mercedes actually paid for that car to be sent back to Germany so they could study it and find out what went wrong. (It hit a huge tree at very high speed! Pretty obvious really)

One survivor, a young child in the centre back seat.

caf said :

Solidarity said :

harvyk1 said :

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

Ah, no. Mercs are way better built, you can feel it when you close the doors and drive the things.

This is coming from a white V8 Commodore owner…

The feel and sound of the doors being closed in modern cars is specifically engineered to give that “expensive feel”. The manufacturers spend a lot on it because they know that a satisfying clunk sells cars. It doesn’t actually indicate anything about how well it’s made.

Ahh not really, vehicles are built heavier in these areas now for increased occupant protection, the heaveier doors are a result. One of the reasons why your bog stock Commodore has increased from 1200kg to over 1500kg in the last 10 years.

European cars have led the world in occupant protection for decades hence the reason Mercs have the clunk as you close the door.

harvyk1 is spot on in what he says, there is only so much decelleration (which is turned into accelleration in the case of the vehicle occupant) that an human body can take. Most occupant protection regulations set a test speed of around 60km/h.

caf said :

Solidarity said :

harvyk1 said :

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

Ah, no. Mercs are way better built, you can feel it when you close the doors and drive the things.

This is coming from a white V8 Commodore owner…

The feel and sound of the doors being closed in modern cars is specifically engineered to give that “expensive feel”. The manufacturers spend a lot on it because they know that a satisfying clunk sells cars. It doesn’t actually indicate anything about how well it’s made.

Mercs have always had that clunk, they’ve also always been regarded as the worlds safest cars. Sure manufacturers these days just fill the gaps up with sound deadening but theres more to it than just a clunk. This thing called engineering. Have you ever been in a Merc, old or new? Doesn’t sound like it.

Solidarity said :

harvyk1 said :

p1 said :

They cared enough about their safety to by very well made cars, rather then doing the same thing in white Commodores of unknown pedigree.

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

Ah, no. Mercs are way better built, you can feel it when you close the doors and drive the things.

Well, feel free to give it a go.

Deref said :

How TF do those whippersnappers afford cars like that?

31 and 34 are whippersnappers?!

Doesn’t say what year model they were driving. You can get a 2002 Merc E500 for under $40k and an Audi S3 for about the same.

Solidarity said :

harvyk1 said :

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

Ah, no. Mercs are way better built, you can feel it when you close the doors and drive the things.

This is coming from a white V8 Commodore owner…

The feel and sound of the doors being closed in modern cars is specifically engineered to give that “expensive feel”. The manufacturers spend a lot on it because they know that a satisfying clunk sells cars. It doesn’t actually indicate anything about how well it’s made.

Deref said :

How TF do those whippersnappers afford cars like that?

Wait… In what world are a 31YO and 34YO “whippersnappers”? They were probably Real Estate Agents…

I just bet the f***tards cried like girls as their cars were seized… as the “big men” always are…

Deref said :

How TF do those whippersnappers afford cars like that?

An intriguing question.

Those particular German cars are designed and *built* to go that fast. Unfortunately, just not on the roads in Australia.

Deref said :

How TF do those whippersnappers afford cars like that?

Deref said :

How TF do those whippersnappers afford cars like that?

They could be drug lords and therefore not gainfully employed either, thus the need for speed in the middle of the day when most of us are at work…

p1 said :

2.0 said :

What exactly is ‘furious driving’? is that now a reference from Fast and the Furious

Yup,

HenryBG said :

Solidarity said :

Guess the Merc won then.

Sounds pretty official to me.

In writing from the Police is pretty official. It will even stand up in court.

“Sergeant Rod Anderson from Traffic Operations said that this type of behaviour is disturbing and the drivers clearly didn’t think about their personal safety and the safety of other road-users.“

They cared enough about their safety to by very well made cars, rather then doing the same thing in white Commodores of unknown pedigree.

+1

HenryBG said :

harvyk1 said :

p1 said :

They cared enough about their safety to by very well made cars, rather then doing the same thing in white Commodores of unknown pedigree.

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

Airbags \ seatbelts and crumple zones only go so far in protecting the driver from an almost instant deceleration.

Not to mention that a merc running into another car will do a similar amount of bad to the other innocent driver as a commy running into another car.

However watching a merc getting crushed would probably be far more soul destroying for the owner (who would most likely still need to pay out their lease and the balloon at the end) compared to the owner of a shitbox.

The Merc is far less likely to end up wrapped around a tree than the Oz/Jap-crap white Commodore is.

Having said that, I recall the Russian family that was wiped out one night on Bowen Drive. They were in a Merc. The tree that took them out was actually removed about 2 years ago – “end of an era”, I thought to myself.

The Russian Merc was running on Vodka. The car was taken to the police holding yard in Fyshwick and a lot of the public saw it. Very sobering.

harvyk1 said :

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

.

Which would be the best to be in if, while doing 160 kmph, an irate Aranda resident with young kids lobbed half a brick at the windscreen?

Just asking. For referrence, you understand.

How TF do those whippersnappers afford cars like that?

Solidarity said :

Ah, no. Mercs are way better built, you can feel it when you close the doors and drive the things.

This is coming from a white V8 Commodore owner…

What does a car being better built have to do with the forces being applied to one’s body during a sudden and violent deceleration from 160km/h to 0km/h?

Let’s assume that the car wrapped itself around the tree without bouncing off (eg a true car wrapped around tree situation). Now at 160km/h you’re doing roughly 44m/s. Thus to get the car to stop in roughly the 1 meter of give which a crumple zone is likely to allow (and that is being generious) the whole accident is over in approx 22 milliseconds. As an aside it takes an airbag between 15 and 30 milliseconds to deploy. Now during this time you will have approx 98g’s of g-force being applied to your body. Any g-force over 50g is likely to be fatal.

Just as an aside, a car doing only 100km/h in such an accident would take 37 milliseconds to decellerate, pretty much within the 30 milliseconds it takes for an airbag to deploy, coincidence?

Now whilst I’m not a mathematician (as such feel free to pull my numbers apart), I’m pretty sure these formulas’s work in the same way regardless of the car you chose to drive.

Woohoo Northside FTW (Melba beats Greenway!)

HenryBG said :

The Merc is far less likely to end up wrapped around a tree than the Oz/Jap-crap white Commodore is.

Do Holden Commadores have any more Jap parts then the average Merc these day? This is a weird comment?

Solidarity said :

Ah, no. Mercs are way better built, you can feel it when you close the doors and drive the things.

Especially the E500’s, those things are tanks. And they generally have a higher standard of electronic intervention devices which reduces the likelihood and severity of impacts when you have a big “lose”. Which, of course, makes it ok.

A3, not so much. I mean still better than a commo but not the same tank-like qualities.

harvyk1 said :

p1 said :

They cared enough about their safety to by very well made cars, rather then doing the same thing in white Commodores of unknown pedigree.

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

Airbags \ seatbelts and crumple zones only go so far in protecting the driver from an almost instant deceleration.

Not to mention that a merc running into another car will do a similar amount of bad to the other innocent driver as a commy running into another car.

However watching a merc getting crushed would probably be far more soul destroying for the owner (who would most likely still need to pay out their lease and the balloon at the end) compared to the owner of a shitbox.

The Merc is far less likely to end up wrapped around a tree than the Oz/Jap-crap white Commodore is.

Having said that, I recall the Russian family that was wiped out one night on Bowen Drive. They were in a Merc. The tree that took them out was actually removed about 2 years ago – “end of an era”, I thought to myself.

harvyk1 said :

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

While my comment was certainly not meant to be taken very seriously, the merc would be much better when it comes to making a sudden stop or swerve then the average commodore (especially at 160km/h), therefore somewhat less likely to hit said tree.

harvyk1 said :

However watching a merc getting crushed would probably be far more soul destroying for the owner (who would most likely still need to pay out their lease and the balloon at the end) compared to the owner of a shitbox.

True. Raises interesting questions about proportionality of punishments which are dollar value based.

harvyk1 said :

p1 said :

They cared enough about their safety to by very well made cars, rather then doing the same thing in white Commodores of unknown pedigree.

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

Ah, no. Mercs are way better built, you can feel it when you close the doors and drive the things.

This is coming from a white V8 Commodore owner…

p1 said :

They cared enough about their safety to by very well made cars, rather then doing the same thing in white Commodores of unknown pedigree.

Funny enough, wrapping a merc around a tree at 160km/h does a similar amount of bad to the driver as wrapping a commy around a tree at 160km/h.

Airbags \ seatbelts and crumple zones only go so far in protecting the driver from an almost instant deceleration.

Not to mention that a merc running into another car will do a similar amount of bad to the other innocent driver as a commy running into another car.

However watching a merc getting crushed would probably be far more soul destroying for the owner (who would most likely still need to pay out their lease and the balloon at the end) compared to the owner of a shitbox.

2.0 said :

What exactly is ‘furious driving’? is that now a reference from Fast and the Furious

Yup,

HenryBG said :

Solidarity said :

Guess the Merc won then.

Sounds pretty official to me.

In writing from the Police is pretty official. It will even stand up in court.

“Sergeant Rod Anderson from Traffic Operations said that this type of behaviour is disturbing and the drivers clearly didn’t think about their personal safety and the safety of other road-users.“

They cared enough about their safety to by very well made cars, rather then doing the same thing in white Commodores of unknown pedigree.

Solidarity said :

Guess the Merc won then.

Sounds pretty official to me.

Both men will face the ACT Magistrates Court at a later date, charged with furious, reckless, dangerous driving and organise, promote, take part in a race.

What exactly is ‘furious driving’? is that now a reference from Fast and the Furious

Ouch!

Goons.

Guess the Merc won then.