Mental health workers to deploy with police

On the other hand, I would like to acknowledge the Officers that have been in contact with our family over the last few weeks and say thankyou publicly. You’ve certainly shown me there are Officers out there who do a difficult job well and with “heart”.

If you take the blinkers off, Violet, you’ll find the vast majority are like that.

Just rang ACT Police and was told by a really helpful woman that MH Liaison Officer would be on duty at 2.30pm today. Then I was asked to leave further details and put through to “Colin” who less than kindly told me he didn’t even know if the MH Liason Officer would be in today….it was just on a trial basis…..and if I had a mental health issue to call MH blah blah blah. He let me know in no uncertain terms that he couldn’t give a s***. How is this program going to work with call screening like that?

On the other hand, I would like to acknowledge the Officers that have been in contact with our family over the last few weeks and say thankyou publicly. You’ve certainly shown me there are Officers out there who do a difficult job well and with “heart”.

It is very difficult from information posted here to determine what illness your son is suffering from, but many families get confused between mental illness and the lifestyle choice to abuse drugs, some of which cause symptoms such as paranoia.

MHW

I doubt that many families confuse the issue at all. As co-occurring disorders are extremely common, it would be really helpful if MHW’s and A & D workers would stop all the argy bargy about who is responsible for caring for people with dual diagnosis ie. the no wrong door approach (which has supposedly been adopted by ACT Mental Health http://www.health.act.gov.au/c/health?a=sendfile&ft=p&fid=1289536111&sid= )

Which occurs first? The mental illness or the drug use? Some people use illicit drugs to counteract negative symptoms like social withdrawal and anxiety, auditory hallucinations and delusions and/or to combat the side effects of their prescribed medication. So sad that families have to deal with MHW’s who refuse to apply a holistic approach. You are correct, you don’t have the expertise or right to diagnose via the RiotAct.

“It’s no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to an insane world” The Dalai Lama

Violet68 said :

If the police are called, then there’s a fair chance that knives, or some other means of harming oneself or others, are involved. Otherwise no-one would have called the cops.

MHW

Really? We have had several occasions where Police were involved (family called CATT not Police) in admission when there were no knives or weapons involved…..

Oh well what would I know? I just make stuff like this up for shits n giggles.

Did say “in very case”? No I did not. My comment was intended to show that the situations you are alluding to are not the “everyday” experience of people with a mental illness, so they do not stigmatise people with mental illnesses as a whole. The police are called first to a minority of mental health crises, and to a minority of people with mental illnesses.

So here’s the reality – Mental Health Workers no longer drive around in white vans, with white coats, tranquilliser guns and strait jackets. They do not have the power, nor the training nor the tools, to detain someone. Some of them, and all doctors (including GPs who like to flick this unpalatable task to someone else, in the interests of maintaining rapport with their patient) can write what is called an EA or Emergency Action, which then empowers the police to detain them. The police can also write an EA, I think, but they also prefer to leave it to the experts. Once written, an EA can only be rescinded by a doctor, though they are also time-limited and are sometimes allowed to expire (which probably was never the intent of those who wrote the legislation).

So, in a nutshell, in the ACT, if a person needs to be taken somewhere (usually hospital) against their will, only the police can do this.

It is very difficult from information posted here to determine what illness your son is suffering from, but many families get confused between mental illness and the lifestyle choice to abuse drugs, some of which cause symptoms such as paranoia.

MHW

Violet68 you have truly shown your colours and I nominate you for nutbag of the week. The reasons being:
4 posts in a row
Good use of capital letters
Claimed expertise
Clearly emotional
Anti Police
Taking hearsay as gospel
Changing your story several times whilst scrambling to save your argument.
Expecting to find sympathy on RiotACT.

Well done.

Its not going to work. It will only be a matter of time before the police put the clinicians right on all their failings and lies. Good help them should they have an opinion that difference in anyway from that of a serving officer, let alone a statement in court. Not a fun job.

The money may have been better spent “supporting” the actual police officers directly. Dealing with the public is enough to send anyone nuts.

[You sure are on a roll (that’s not a good thing in your case). “Off himself” – your son’s words, not theirs I suspect. How dare they go and check on your son to make sure he hasn’t (or doesn’t intend to) hurt himself. Oh dear, he has withdrawn because police checked on his welfare (at whose request, I wonder. They don’t check welfare randomly). All these years of mental illness and a visit from police to make sure he’s okay is the straw that broke the camel’s back?

Does he think everyone – including his family – are out to get him because a family member made the call? Or did a family member call CATT and they refused to attend due to previous violent behaviour and requested police attend instead? I wonder…

It’s pretty clear from your rants that your only real world experience with mental health is through your son and text books. You’re clearly anti-police and are looking to blame everyone else for your son’s behaviour. Grow up.

I asked them to check on him approx 2 years ago and waited outside while they went in. He wasn’t home. Same police happened to arrest him recently and decided to tell him all about their trip to his home – taunting him about it – telling them they’d been in there before (and don’t deny that they taunt people and mess with their heads deliberately to get information). Actually, my son probably would have said “top himself” but that’s by the by……He thinks people are out to get him because he is not well at the moment and now any trust he had for us is gone. I don’t blame anyone for his behaviour. I am pissed off and fed up with having to go through the same shit on a regular basis without any change in response or progress.

I’m not the only one with a shit story to tell http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/notforservice/documents/chapters/stories.pdf

Just to clarify – I’ve case managed in supported accommodation, aged and disability (including mental health) and volunteer for a mental health organisation so not all my experience comes from my personal life or text books.

For the person, who’s been going for 20 years it would be great if you could share some of your experience instead of putting me down…….coming on here recently has allowed me to voice my frustrations but has just reaffirmed the fact that nobody is listening.

And for my final intelligent comment…..go fk yourselves 🙂

Violet68 said :

And while I’m on a roll…..I’d like to send a big shout out to the fine upstanding Police Officers who told my son that we did a welfare check on him in case he was going to “off himself” (their words not ours)……he has withdrawn even further now believing there is noone to trust because everyone is out to get him – including his family. Thanks for that.

You sure are on a roll (that’s not a good thing in your case). “Off himself” – your son’s words, not theirs I suspect. How dare they go and check on your son to make sure he hasn’t (or doesn’t intend to) hurt himself. Oh dear, he has withdrawn because police checked on his welfare (at whose request, I wonder. They don’t check welfare randomly). All these years of mental illness and a visit from police to make sure he’s okay is the straw that broke the camel’s back?

Does he think everyone – including his family – are out to get him because a family member made the call? Or did a family member call CATT and they refused to attend due to previous violent behaviour and requested police attend instead? I wonder…

It’s pretty clear from your rants that your only real world experience with mental health is through your son and text books. You’re clearly anti-police and are looking to blame everyone else for your son’s behaviour. Grow up.

“yeah I suppose 12 years of working in the community sector and about 10 years of caring for someone with an illness don’t count for much. What would I know?”

I’ll double it

You are an anti-Police axe grinder who wouldn’t know the pointy end of a mad/bad man if it screamed at you

Violet68 said :

yeah I suppose 12 years of working in the community sector and about 10 years of caring for someone with an illness don’t count for much. What would I know?

I don’t think it matters what you know. If you come into a public forum like this lobbing aggressive and poorly thought out abuse at all and sundry as you have, then one of two things will happen. Some people will ignore you as I generally do because you’re not worth contending with, and others will wind you up for a bit of fun.

Whatever the case, you’re going to wear out your fingers and keyboard without any real benefit to yourself or anyone else.

And while I’m on a roll…..I’d like to send a big shout out to the fine upstanding Police Officers who told my son that we did a welfare check on him in case he was going to “off himself” (their words not ours)……he has withdrawn even further now believing there is noone to trust because everyone is out to get him – including his family. Thanks for that.

If the police are called, then there’s a fair chance that knives, or some other means of harming oneself or others, are involved. Otherwise no-one would have called the cops.

MHW

Really? We have had several occasions where Police were involved (family called CATT not Police) in admission when there were no knives or weapons involved…..

Oh well what would I know? I just make stuff like this up for shits n giggles.

Special G said :

Your very suggestion that all MH crisis somehow involve knives and the need for tasers reflects your poor understanding of the subject. Your comment simply reminded me of old archaic attitudes and the stigma that surrounds mental illness.

If the police are called, then there’s a fair chance that knives, or some other means of harming oneself or others, are involved. Otherwise no-one would have called the cops.

MHW

AdventureTime said :

It’s easy to criticize mental health and emergency services, but how many of you with strong opinions on the matter have considered changing their career to become part of the solution? Not many, I suspect. It’s low paid, thankless work with long-hours and constant criticism from people who know better. Volunteers anyone?

Actually, the pay is not bad, once you have a bit of experience under your belt, and if you pursue postgraduate qualifications. Think $80-90,000, plus shift penalties if you work in CATT or in a hospital (say another 20-30%). That’s in ACT government of course, not in a NGO, which incidentally is where the Feds are throwing most of their money. What’s that expression about paying peanuts?

MHW

Violet68 said :

Is that right ….. I have had VAST exposure to it for a number of years and various awareness courses, unlike you sitting around reading a few textbooks “research” and calling yourself well versed

Far from sitting around reading, I work in the sector, have attended trainings, consultations, worked with PEOPLE experiencing illness and their carers. I have learned to back up my comments with research – but people still argue anyway….. My family IS my life and this has become a very big part of it. We LIVE with it every day in the REAL world. Hope you enjoyed your “awareness” courses……you seem to be the one with a biaised opinion – otherwise my comments would offend you so much.

My opinion is somewhat in the middle and is gained from first hand dealings and observations from both sides of the fence, so no offence at all. My point is you spruking yourself as someone with so much apparent knowledge, you’ve show very little real knowledge on the subject. First you say you have done extensive research, now your someone that has dealt with all it’s facets daily …… which is it?? Or now have you done it all. You criticise one side and tell them how they should be doing their job, saying that you know the system. Going on what you’ve said so far, you don’t I’m afraid.

The only thing I tend to believe is that you are someone that unfortunately has a mentally ill son, which I genuinely sympathise with.

Anyways, enough of this subject because we are just hitting brick walls and achieving nothing. I wish the best for you and your son for the future.

Is that right ….. I have had VAST exposure to it for a number of years and various awareness courses, unlike you sitting around reading a few textbooks “research” and calling yourself well versed

Far from sitting around reading, I work in the sector, have attended trainings, consultations, worked with PEOPLE experiencing illness and their carers. I have learned to back up my comments with research – but people still argue anyway….. My family IS my life and this has become a very big part of it. We LIVE with it every day in the REAL world. Hope you enjoyed your “awareness” courses……you seem to be the one with a biaised opinion – otherwise my comments would offend you so much.

Violet68 said :

Your comments about “people like me” should be having a go at this n that portray a judgmental attitude and unwillingness to admit that Police may need a kick in the arse when it comes to dealing with MH. I have backed up my comments with research which reflects reality rather than my personal situation. You, on the other hand, have not.

Is that right ….. I have had VAST exposure to it for a number of years and various awareness courses, unlike you sitting around reading a few textbooks “research” and calling yourself well versed in the subject. Come into the real world and it from the the other side of the fence and you may then get a FULL picture of the issues, not just from a personal biased view.

yeah I suppose 12 years of working in the community sector and about 10 years of caring for someone with an illness don’t count for much. What would I know?

” In my experience, they prefer not to do so.”

In my experience people like you are full of it, as you have no real ‘experience’ in it

CanberraGirl19 said :

Violet68 said :

People like myself, have every right to comment.
Violet68 should be having a go at the system if they have issue, not the Police that just do as the system requires.

The “system” requires Police to consider their options and seek specialist advice when dealing with MH crisis. In my experience, they prefer not to do so.

Um, correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t having mental health workers in the police operations area give them an opportunity to seek specialist advice? Since all they need to do it radio in to comms to get the advice they need. Just because the mental health workers aren’t getting that many calls from the public doesn’t mean they aren’t being utilised.

And since you’re so quick to criticise the police, how about they release some stats sometime about how many times they’ve had situations that have escalated to violence, where they called mental health beforehand and they couldn’t/wouldn’t attend? It’s not really fair to blame the police when they’re not specialist mental health workers, and sometimes getting advice or an actual mental health worker out to the situation is just not an option.

No you are not wrong! It does indeed give Police an opportunity to seek specialist advice, yes! They do have access to other options….thankyou for clarifying.

FACTS – •Many violent people have no history of mental disorder and most (90%) of people with mental illness have no history of violence.
•Only a small proportion of violence in society is attributable to mental illness (studies suggest up to 10%)

It’s easy to criticize mental health and emergency services, but how many of you with strong opinions on the matter have considered changing their career to become part of the solution? Not many, I suspect. It’s low paid, thankless work with long-hours and constant criticism from people who know better. Volunteers anyone?

Special G said :

MH patients most likely have a bad interaction with Police as they only come to the attention of the Police when everyone else has failed.

eg – they are off their meds and need to be brought in. MH contacts Police to do the bringing in in case they get violent. Police come out looking bad MH look good.

Eg 2 – Person off meds threatens suicide – Police stop them (how dare they) and take them (whether they want it or not) to MH to get treatment. no thanks there.

Eg 3 – person off meds going nuts with a knife etc.. Police stop their party (possibly with force) and then take them to the MH professionals again. Can’t see them being too thankful.

Eg 4 – MH patient goes and commits offence – gets locked up (probably not really happy) then gets referred to MH by wither Police or Courts. Again the MH patient is getting help they probably don’t want.

Damn those Police types for getting in the way.

Do you need to be a mental health patient to have an opinion or does someone seeing it from the other side of the fence get one.

And at least one of those examples at any given time, occurs almost daily.

Your very suggestion that all MH crisis somehow involve knives and the need for tasers reflects your poor understanding of the subject. Your comment simply reminded me of old archaic attitudes and the stigma that surrounds mental illness. You have no right to speak on behalf of all mentally ill people either now or in the future. I would love to sit you down in an actual consultation with mental health consumers so you could actually hear the stories about interactions with Police. THEN you might be entitled to an opinion…….

Now you are for the protection of people with a mental illness rather than the rest of the fine upstanding citizens of our society and armed forces? Hypocrite.

MH patients most likely have a bad interaction with Police as they only come to the attention of the Police when everyone else has failed.

eg – they are off their meds and need to be brought in. MH contacts Police to do the bringing in in case they get violent. Police come out looking bad MH look good.

Eg 2 – Person off meds threatens suicide – Police stop them (how dare they) and take them (whether they want it or not) to MH to get treatment. no thanks there.

Eg 3 – person off meds going nuts with a knife etc.. Police stop their party (possibly with force) and then take them to the MH professionals again. Can’t see them being too thankful.

Eg 4 – MH patient goes and commits offence – gets locked up (probably not really happy) then gets referred to MH by wither Police or Courts. Again the MH patient is getting help they probably don’t want.

Damn those Police types for getting in the way.

Do you need to be a mental health patient to have an opinion or does someone seeing it from the other side of the fence get one.

Violet68 said :

People like myself, have every right to comment.
Violet68 should be having a go at the system if they have issue, not the Police that just do as the system requires.

The “system” requires Police to consider their options and seek specialist advice when dealing with MH crisis. In my experience, they prefer not to do so.

Um, correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t having mental health workers in the police operations area give them an opportunity to seek specialist advice? Since all they need to do it radio in to comms to get the advice they need. Just because the mental health workers aren’t getting that many calls from the public doesn’t mean they aren’t being utilised.

And since you’re so quick to criticise the police, how about they release some stats sometime about how many times they’ve had situations that have escalated to violence, where they called mental health beforehand and they couldn’t/wouldn’t attend? It’s not really fair to blame the police when they’re not specialist mental health workers, and sometimes getting advice or an actual mental health worker out to the situation is just not an option.

Violet68 said :

People like myself, have every right to comment.
Violet68 should be having a go at the system if they have issue, not the Police that just do as the system requires.

The “system” requires Police to consider their options and seek specialist advice when dealing with MH crisis. In my experience, they prefer not to do so.

And what exactly is your experience, Violet (recent incident with a family member aside – which you didn’t attend anyway)? Police frequently seek advice from mental health, either by speaking directly with CATT, or by taking people directly to PSU if required. This happens so frequently in fact, that I’d suggest your experience in this area may be lacking.

Violet68 said :

Your very suggestion that all MH crisis somehow involve knives and the need for tasers reflects your poor understanding of the subject. Your comment simply reminded me of old archaic attitudes and the stigma that surrounds mental illness.

Obviously Violet is non compus mentus.

If she were, she would be aware of a recent fatal shooting in Canberra where Police were chased by a man wielding knives. Police who didn’t have a taser.

But that’s okay, she obviously exists in a world where a whole different type of logic, reason and sense applies. I would suggest that world would quickly collapse however were a relative of hers shot by Police in similar circumstances. Then perhaps Tasers would not seem so evil. Indeed she would likely be yelling at Police why they weren’t used.

cranky said :

Perhaps additional (?) MH staff at the Hume Hilton and Bimberi would be a far more effective use of resources.

Given that the very environment within a prison CONTRIBUTES to mental illness I don’t see your point. Or are you saying, we should keep them all locked up forever?

You again have shown no real idea of the system, only what YOU believe it should be. In my experience Police FREQUENTLY utilise MH services and advice, but if criminal offences are identified they will be put before the court and/or mental health tribunal and they have every right to argue mental impairment.

I’m sorry, but you come across as someone with sour grapes because your Son got prosecuted for criminal offences. Your Son has still got all the MH avenues and assistance available to him regardless of prosecution or not, so I think your point is moot.

The recent introduction of this project reflects the NEED for Police to become better equipped to deal with MH crisis. I have become involved in various consumer consultations and read quite alot on the subject….and yes I have personal experience. However, there is a much bigger picture here.

Your comments about “people like me” should be having a go at this n that portray a judgmental attitude and unwillingness to admit that Police may need a kick in the arse when it comes to dealing with MH. I have backed up my comments with research which reflects reality rather than my personal situation. You, on the other hand, have not.

I do not expect the police to “support” anyone. That’s just not what they are there for and I wouldn’t want it to distract them from their real job.

So you wouldn’t want an elderly person with dementia who had gone on a wander to distract Police from their “real job” ……or that young woman with an intellectual disability who was found on a traffic island……or the little old lady who lived next door to my daughter and died in her flat because Police checked on her but left her to her own devices without contacting family. Yep, unimportant facets of the work……

creative_canberran said :

Violet68 said :

creative_canberran said :

Sounds like a great idea, but we still need to work on getting tasers out there for senior officers. For all the negotiations and reasoning these new staff will enable, Police are still very limited in what they can do should a mentally ill person threaten members of the public or take a hostage (exemplified in the past week by two incidents involving custody disputes and children).

yeah cos all mentally ill people require shock treatment

So if a mentally ill person has an episode and decides to grab someone and hold a knife to them, you would prefer police have no other option but to shoot if they lunge with the knife.

On behalf of the mentally ill people in the future who will die or be seriously injured in such common situations, thank you. They appreciate it.

Your very suggestion that all MH crisis somehow involve knives and the need for tasers reflects your poor understanding of the subject. Your comment simply reminded me of old archaic attitudes and the stigma that surrounds mental illness. You have no right to speak on behalf of all mentally ill people either now or in the future. I would love to sit you down in an actual consultation with mental health consumers so you could actually hear the stories about interactions with Police. THEN you might be entitled to an opinion…….

Now you are for the protection of people with a mental illness rather than the rest of the fine upstanding citizens of our society and armed forces? Hypocrite.

They’re police. Their first responsibility is to uphold the law and protect the general public.

It appears that the Chief of Police has a different opinion (or the publicist)

Perhaps additional (?) MH staff at the Hume Hilton and Bimberi would be a far more effective use of resources.

Violet68 said :

People like myself, have every right to comment.
Violet68 should be having a go at the system if they have issue, not the Police that just do as the system requires.

The “system” requires Police to consider their options and seek specialist advice when dealing with MH crisis. In my experience, they prefer not to do so.

I never said you don’t have the right to comment ……..

You again have shown no real idea of the system, only what YOU believe it should be. In my experience Police FREQUENTLY utilise MH services and advice, but if criminal offences are identified they will be put before the court and/or mental health tribunal and they have every right to argue mental impairment.

I’m sorry, but you come across as someone with sour grapes because your Son got prosecuted for criminal offences. Your Son has still got all the MH avenues and assistance available to him regardless of prosecution or not, so I think your point is moot.

Violet68 said :

And I don’t think anyone expects the police “to support those in our community who may have a mental illness” as such, but it’s clear that a proportion of the more serious crime is due to mental health issues and therefor it must be a good thing to have advice on hand on how to best defuse tricky situations to avoid people being harmed.

I most certainly do expect Police to support people with a mental illness in the community – the same way I expect them to support and protect any of the other vulnerable people in our society. Given that this project has already been operating for “two months”, recent events have me wondering how and IF Police are actually using it.

They’re police. Their first responsibility is to uphold the law and protect the general public. I think this is a good initiative because if the people committing a crime or posing a danger to the public or themselves have mental health issues, everyone would benefit from a different approach. But I do not expect the police to “support” anyone. That’s just not what they are there for and I wouldn’t want it to distract them from their real job.

Violet68 said :

creative_canberran said :

Sounds like a great idea, but we still need to work on getting tasers out there for senior officers. For all the negotiations and reasoning these new staff will enable, Police are still very limited in what they can do should a mentally ill person threaten members of the public or take a hostage (exemplified in the past week by two incidents involving custody disputes and children).

yeah cos all mentally ill people require shock treatment

So if a mentally ill person has an episode and decides to grab someone and hold a knife to them, you would prefer police have no other option but to shoot if they lunge with the knife.

On behalf of the mentally ill people in the future who will die or be seriously injured in such common situations, thank you. They appreciate it.

People like myself, have every right to comment.
Violet68 should be having a go at the system if they have issue, not the Police that just do as the system requires.

The “system” requires Police to consider their options and seek specialist advice when dealing with MH crisis. In my experience, they prefer not to do so.

Special G said :

First response is family and friends – when they fail Mental Health when they fail the Police. Then the Police bear the responsibility for everyone elses failings. Recent Supreme Court findings clearly outline this.

If someone commits an offence the appropriate action for Police to take is to send them before the Courts. Then MH etc can get involved to work out whether the underlying issue is bad or mad. It is well known in Canberra that a little bit of mad will get you off a whole lot of bad.

Hit the nail on the head right there. Some people like Violet68 need to understand, that Police aren’t psychologists nor will they ever be no matter how much training is given. The training is for Police to better deal with and understand MH persons in crisis.

If a person is found committing criminal offences, they will be put before the courts. The courts have the ability to hear the matter and/or determine mental impairment or refer to the mental health tribunal. if deemed appropriate.

Violet68 should be having a go at the system if they have issue, not the Police that just do as the system requires.

creative_canberran said :

Sounds like a great idea, but we still need to work on getting tasers out there for senior officers. For all the negotiations and reasoning these new staff will enable, Police are still very limited in what they can do should a mentally ill person threaten members of the public or take a hostage (exemplified in the past week by two incidents involving custody disputes and children).

yeah cos all mentally ill people require shock treatment

Sounds like a great idea, but we still need to work on getting tasers out there for senior officers. For all the negotiations and reasoning these new staff will enable, Police are still very limited in what they can do should a mentally ill person threaten members of the public or take a hostage (exemplified in the past week by two incidents involving custody disputes and children).

Special G said :

nobody said :

Violet68 said :

nobody said :

Terrific improvement. Society used to have some men in white coats who would arrive in a special van to fit a special jacket to people who are experiencing a mental breakdown. We realised this action was less than ideal and so stopped, but then didn’t replace that we a new improved system.

Apparently, the new improved system is called the justice system where you will be judged on the existence and severity of your illness and probably punished for it.

I mean the first response to someone having a mental breakdown, before an incident reaches the courts. We send the police, trained to subdue criminals, armed to inflict lethal harm. This type of first response from the police (well meaning, but not trained for these situations), has resulted in deaths and serious injuries.

First response is family and friends – when they fail Mental Health when they fail the Police. Then the Police bear the responsibility for everyone elses failings. Recent Supreme Court findings clearly outline this.

If someone commits an offence the appropriate action for Police to take is to send them before the Courts. Then MH etc can get involved to work out whether the underlying issue is bad or mad. It is well known in Canberra that a little bit of mad will get you off a whole lot of bad.

Family and friends bear the responsibility each and every day 24/7.

A defence of mental illness is currently viewed as a loophole used to escape punishment. The perception of a perpetrator feigning madness can avoid sentence is not supported by evidence. Only 1% of charges are dismissed under the Mental Health Criminal Procedure Act. There is extensive evidence that people with severe mental illness are more likely to be convicted of misdemeanours than their mentally healthy counterparts and to be incarcerated for longer periods. In view of the high number of people with mental illness who do not have their charges dismissed, it is no wonder jails and detention centres have become “defacto” mental institutions.

nobody said :

Violet68 said :

nobody said :

Terrific improvement. Society used to have some men in white coats who would arrive in a special van to fit a special jacket to people who are experiencing a mental breakdown. We realised this action was less than ideal and so stopped, but then didn’t replace that we a new improved system.

Apparently, the new improved system is called the justice system where you will be judged on the existence and severity of your illness and probably punished for it.

I mean the first response to someone having a mental breakdown, before an incident reaches the courts. We send the police, trained to subdue criminals, armed to inflict lethal harm. This type of first response from the police (well meaning, but not trained for these situations), has resulted in deaths and serious injuries.

First response is family and friends – when they fail Mental Health when they fail the Police. Then the Police bear the responsibility for everyone elses failings. Recent Supreme Court findings clearly outline this.

If someone commits an offence the appropriate action for Police to take is to send them before the Courts. Then MH etc can get involved to work out whether the underlying issue is bad or mad. It is well known in Canberra that a little bit of mad will get you off a whole lot of bad.

Violet68 said :

nobody said :

Terrific improvement. Society used to have some men in white coats who would arrive in a special van to fit a special jacket to people who are experiencing a mental breakdown. We realised this action was less than ideal and so stopped, but then didn’t replace that we a new improved system.

Apparently, the new improved system is called the justice system where you will be judged on the existence and severity of your illness and probably punished for it.

I mean the first response to someone having a mental breakdown, before an incident reaches the courts. We send the police, trained to subdue criminals, armed to inflict lethal harm. This type of first response from the police (well meaning, but not trained for these situations), has resulted in deaths and serious injuries.

oops a couple of typos – should be 36-ish hours PER week; and EVERY six hours…

Deref said :

Sounds like an excellent idea.

Unfortunately there’s been so much publicity over so many years about the extreme under-resourcing of mental health in the ACT that I wonder if this is just going to spread existing resources even more thinly.

Indeed. This is a tacit acceptance that the Crisis Team isn’t able to perform this role, which it should be able to. Also two clinicians simply can’t cover Thursday to Sunday 24 hours – do the maths. Thursday to Sunday is 4 days, or 96 hours, and a public servant works 36-ish hours oer week. When one of them is on leave, or sick, there won’t be cover.

The Canberra times reports that they’ve received an average of 6 calls a day – this sounds like very poor use of resources – dealing with one phone call very 6 hours. “Embedding” them in the police call centre sounds like it achieves nothing more than would be achieved by increasing the resources of CATT so that they can promptly answer calls from the police – presumably the initiative has been developed so as to give police priority access to a MH worker, but in the process it takes resources away from elsewhere. There’s a finite pool of MH workers in Canberra, and ACTMH always has vacancies.

MHW

nobody said :

Terrific improvement. Society used to have some men in white coats who would arrive in a special van to fit a special jacket to people who are experiencing a mental breakdown. We realised this action was less than ideal and so stopped, but then didn’t replace that we a new improved system.

Apparently, the new improved system is called the justice system where you will be judged on the existence and severity of your illness and probably punished for it.

Terrific improvement. Society used to have some men in white coats who would arrive in a special van to fit a special jacket to people who are experiencing a mental breakdown. We realised this action was less than ideal and so stopped, but then didn’t replace that we a new improved system.

And I don’t think anyone expects the police “to support those in our community who may have a mental illness” as such, but it’s clear that a proportion of the more serious crime is due to mental health issues and therefor it must be a good thing to have advice on hand on how to best defuse tricky situations to avoid people being harmed.

I most certainly do expect Police to support people with a mental illness in the community – the same way I expect them to support and protect any of the other vulnerable people in our society. Given that this project has already been operating for “two months”, recent events have me wondering how and IF Police are actually using it.

Sounds like an excellent idea.

Unfortunately there’s been so much publicity over so many years about the extreme under-resourcing of mental health in the ACT that I wonder if this is just going to spread existing resources even more thinly.

Perhaps we can get some sitting off in a room next to the ACT Assembly as well…………………………I can see some use for that move!

“While mental illness is a health issue and often not a law enforcement matter, we, as police, have a moral obligation to support those in our community who may have a mental illness,” Chief Police Officer Quaedvlieg said.

Totally agree

Bit of a misleading headlive there JB. Were they to deploy they would be out and about able to respond and actually assess the mental health patient by looking at them and speaking with them. I am not sure how effective they are going to be at the other end of the phone.

Put them in a car and make them respond to MH incidents.

Sounds like a good initiative to me.

“Clinicians have been working in ACT Policing Operations (radio communications) for two months and have already received more than 170 calls for assistance.”

Interesting that they only officially launch the strategy after they’ve already been trialling it for 2 months. That usually means they had doubts about the implementation. Or maybe they just didn’t want to wait for the Minister to make time for the media presentation…

And I don’t think anyone expects the police “to support those in our community who may have a mental illness” as such, but it’s clear that a proportion of the more serious crime is due to mental health issues and therefor it must be a good thing to have advice on hand on how to best defuse tricky situations to avoid people being harmed.

No doubt this will be of interest to all regular posters in the thread, “Don’t have a domestic in your grow house” given the concerns raised in that thread about mental health and law enforcement generally, and how they relate to each other.