3 November 2025

Nationals quit net zero, placing pressure on Libs to follow suit

| By Chris Johnson
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Opposition Leader Sussan Ley’s decision on net zero has just become tougher after the Nationals abandoned the policy commitment. Photo: Instagram.

The Nationals have formally dropped their support for the net-zero carbon emissions by 2050 goal, placing huge pressure on the Liberals to do the same or risk splitting the Coalition.

The junior Coalition partner reached a unanimous decision during a special partyroom meeting on Sunday (2 November) to strike net zero from its platform, following a meeting of the party’s federal council in Canberra the day before.

State and territory branches of the party had voted to abandon it.

The National’s review of the policy, led by senators Matt Canavan and Ross Cadell, concluded the commitment to net zero was no longer serving the interests of the Australian people.

Rural and regional areas were being the hardest hit by the renewable energy push and the soaring cost of energy bills, their report stated.

Nationals Leader David Littleproud said while there will be “puerile arguments” that the party is full of climate change deniers, the country needs an “intellectual debate” on the issue.

To replace net zero, the Nationals are instead pushing their own “all-energy approach” to deliver the “lowest possible electricity prices” for Australian households and businesses, while maintaining reliability and lowering emissions.

READ ALSO Environmental protection bill introduced, but a long way to go before it becomes law

“Australia can’t afford Labor’s net zero plan, which Labor cannot achieve anyway,” Mr Littleproud said.

“Families are paying too much, and jobs are being lost. Our environment is suffering with forests and farmland being destroyed.

“We need to bring common sense back to solving climate change. Our plan puts Australians first, with cheaper electricity and secure jobs, while still lowering emissions.

“Under Labor’s net zero, electricity prices are up by 39 per cent. Gas prices are up by 46 per cent. In the meantime, real wages have dropped back to 2011 levels and 7000 manufacturing jobs have been lost.

“The Nationals will abandon a net zero commitment.”

The party’s policy now is to remove all carbon taxes and restrictions and promote local community action through initiatives such as waterway protection, land restoration and soil carbon sequestration.

The Nationals say lower emissions will be “incentivised” through a renewed Emissions Reduction Fund, costing a “small fraction of the $9 billion” currently being spent each year on net-zero subsidies, regulations, and administrative costs.

“Our approach will increase investment in cheaper electricity by broadening the Capacity Investment Scheme to include all energy technologies and remove the moratorium on nuclear energy,” Mr Littleproud said.

“Labor’s net zero has failed. We have a plan which is cheaper, better and fairer.”

Senator Canavan, who has openly pushed for an end to net zero, said he was proud of the position the party has taken.

“We, the National Party, have found our voice today,” he said.

However, it is a voice that has sent shivers down the spine of Opposition Leader Sussan Ley, who has been adamant that the Coalition would not decide its energy and environment policies until all reviews were completed.

She has brought forward the deadline for the Liberal Party’s own review of energy policy because of the Nationals’ move but, unlike in the junior party, there remains strong support from numerous Liberals for retaining the net zero commitment.

The issue has long been a point of internal contention for the Coalition.

Shadow energy minister Dan Tehan, who is leading the Libs’ policy review, said on Monday morning (3 November) that it would be completed before Christmas.

Former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce has his own private member’s bill before parliament to abandon net zero, and is no longer attending partyroom meetings out of frustration that the Coalition has not adopted his position.

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Speaking on the ABC’s Insiders program on Sunday, Environment Minister Murray Watt said it looked like the Nationals were calling the shots for the entire Opposition.

“Yet again, we’re seeing the tail wagging the dog in the Coalition,” Senator Watt said.

“We’ve got the National Party, which didn’t even rate 4 per cent of the vote in the last federal election, dictating terms to the Liberal Party who claim to be the majority party in a coalition.

“It’s a repeat of what we saw with nuclear, where the National Party went out first to drag the Liberal Party into supporting nuclear, only to be resoundingly rejected by the Australian people at the last election.

“I mean, the idea that you would hand over climate and energy policy to the likes of Matt Canavan and the ghost of Barnaby Joyce is like handing Dracula the keys to the blood bank.

“Half the National Party don’t believe in climate change. The other half just want to wish it away.

“What they are doing in dragging the Liberal Party to this position is getting in the way of the incredible economic opportunity that transitioning to net zero provides.

“So it’s a real test for the Liberal Party about whether they’re going to continue being dictated to by a junior partner in their coalition who doesn’t believe in climate change, or whether they’re going to get with the rest of the world and take the economic opportunities that transition involves.”

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Ron Rubendra1:18 pm 06 Nov 25

“Labor’s net zero plan”? – Talk about gaslighting from the Nationals. This is not Labor’s plan but an international cooperative goal. As of October 2025, around 145 countries had announced or are considering net-zero targets, including China, the EU, and India. The countries cover close to 77% of global emissions. The concept of “net zero” originated from scientific research conducted in the late 2000s. These studies demonstrated that stopping global warming requires achieving a balance between the greenhouse gases emitted by human activities and the removal of such gases from the atmosphere. This balance is essential to stabilise global temperatures and prevent further climate change. This was agreed in Paris in 2015. Talk about giving more seats to the teals to protect you mining interests.

Someone said net zero is self harm. Well doing nothing harms you, your family your town, country and word. doing nothing is not a solution at least make an effort to reach net zero

Good Question Henry, China also has to do their thing it reduce the risks of human induced climate change too. Lets check some figures Australia produced 3.4GW of electricity to the national grid in the first half of 2025 where as China has introduced 256.0GW hours of electricity from renewables in 2025. I know China is a long way behind but its good to see them making an effort. This is a world problem and we don’t have to follow USA policy. we are a sovereign county and can make our own discissions

If Aussies cared about climate they all be stopping orders from Temu.
Given every retailer is trying to compete with Temu, i’d say they are all stupid or don’t really care.

It looks like the Liberal/Nationals are jumping on the environmental bandwagon to appeal to that side of politics. Saving the environment is obviously much needed but I don’t think Net Zero is a realistic goal. But how I see it is like this, Net Zero is like trying to achieve Nirvana (the stage of enlightenment, not the band), it may be unreachable but a noble goal to try and achieve.

Nirvana would be net negative. Net zero is achievable, and necessary if you think the environment important or indeed essential for us.

Heywood Smith10:12 am 05 Nov 25

One minute the melting ice is due to global warming, nek minnit – https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/antarctica/nasa-satellites-show-antarctica-has-gained-ice-despite-rising-global-temperatures-how-is-that-possible

Its funny reading the articles with all the opinions of the brainwashed ‘scientists’. No doubt they have a few fans in this thread.

You could have at least read the first line in the article Heywood:

“…is a temporary anomaly rather than an indication that global warming has reversed, scientists say.”

One minute we’re sticking it to people who sensible accept the science on climate change nek minnit we’re completely embarrassed…

The same trend has been going for years.

The ozone hole has recovered. However the icecaps will still disappear as we exit the last bit of the recent ice age.

Heywood Smith11:21 am 05 Nov 25

Seano – Oh, i read the first line, its the funniest part of the article. One moment these climate experts aka scientists, claim the ice is melting due to due to global warming, the next its a temporary anomaly. LMFAO!

No need to be embarrassed Seano, its not your first time.

Sorry mate but when you spell it as “nek minnit” it makes those “brainwashed scientists” sound more convincing. LOL

“Oh, i read the first line, its the funniest part of the article.”

Lol…yes it’s quite the credible hot take, ignoring the bits of the article that don’t match your beliefs. Look up confirmation bias Heywood, or in a mirror.

“The ozone hole has recovered. However the icecaps will still disappear as we exit the last bit of the recent ice age.”

Unsurprisingly Henry you’re talking nonsense.

https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/news/feature-articles/un-ice-age

with a heavy heart I will not support a party that does not support net zero. As a lifelong Liberal supporter this is a hard decision to make. I’m sick and tired of the squabbling in parliament on climate and we all pay the price.

The Liberals will lose my vote and i will vote independent.

This the key to the whole thing, to regain power the LNP need the centre right. What they’re doing here is locking those people out. It’s a gift to the Teals who will hold their seats and possibly gain/regain some and the Greens in inner city Melbourne and Brisbane.

Just in Australia or China who is building new coal plants?

Is your Net zero just an Australia Net or a global Net?

Henry, China is investing in renewables at a far higher rate than the smaller coal plants they are currently building, and the latter will be superseded.

China has already produced more electricity (actual consumption, not merely capacity) from renewables than from fossil fuels. Building more renewables than fossil plants, this trend will go on.

Obviously we can’t FP, but hosting it might demonstrate some of the hypocrisy and silliness of the whole activist movement.

The swarms of private jets flying in to berate those in the world who want a decent standard of living. Imagine the beating up we would get for being Australia too, how dare we export cheap energy to the world. 🌏

HiddenDragon10:54 pm 03 Nov 25

The crucial part of what was announced yesterday is the idea of “pegging Australia’s emissions reduction efforts to the OECD average” –

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-11-02/nationals-formally-abandon-net-zero-by-2050/105962162

This is a “neither lead nor lag approach” which does not preclude eventually reaching net zero – but only if comparable countries do likewise.

Not leading (or pretending to) the rest of the world will be distressing to people who seem to believe that Australia has an hermetically sealed environment influenced only by its own emissions, to those seeking expiation of the burden of guilt they bear due to their privileged lifestyles, and – most stridently of all – to the rent-seekers and racketeers whose “logic” is that renewables are the cheapest source of energy, so that’s why they need lavish subsidies and markets heavily rigged in their favour.

Labor’s trajectory – in spite of all the hype and expensive market interventions – is looking increasingly like its own version of “neither lead nor lag” as pragmatism of the political and economic varieties catches up with posturing idealism.

The gap between what Labor says, and what it actually believes, is perhaps best illustrated by a PM whose government sermonises endlessly about the effects of catastrophic climate change such as coastal erosion, but who, in spite of waning international efforts against it, has the confidence to spend millions on a seaside home where he presumably expects to be living well into the 2040s.

Oh wow, so a complete con to make it look like the Nats have a sensible solution but actual we revert to the Abbott/Turnbull/Morrison era of do nothing on energy resulting in high emissions and even higher energy prices for Australians as our coal fleet fails. Genius stuff.

But good luck to explaining that nonsense to punters at the ballot box.

You cant quit something that’s impossible to achieve without destroying what you are. Its realising ones own limitations.

And the hits keep coming for the anti-renewables zealots, who keep screaming into the wind (literally) as the for profit and investment firms keep rolling out the lowest cost renewable options as coal declines.

Renewables overtaking coal for supplying the majority of power to the national grid in October, another transition milestone reached.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/tasmania-wind-blows-hard-in-october-as-renewables-beat-coal-again-and-batteries-beat-pumped-hydro/

Leon Arundell11:20 am 03 Nov 25

Since 1990 the average person has caused 250 tonnes of CO2e emissions.
The average Australian has caused more than a thousand tonnes. That will grow to about 1,400 tonnes if we meet Australia’s target of net zero ANNUAL emissions by 2050, or about 1,700 tonnes if we keep emitting at our current rate.

Capital Retro12:48 pm 03 Nov 25

We must all stop eating curried gunpowder then.

Heywood Smith12:54 pm 03 Nov 25

@leon your verbal dribble has just added another 250 tonnes of CO2e emissions.

Excellent news. Finally the Nationals confirm their political irrelevancy and that they represent a constituency of one. Making themselves and the Liberal Party unelectable for the entertainment of dopes who fantasise that climate change is not real, or that the world has given up on addressing climate based solely on culture wars nonsense is the sort of “genius” electoral tactics we’ve come to expect from the increasingly cooked & clueless Nats.

Excellent news. Finally a political party is pushing back against the craziness of net zero which is delivering energy poverty, industry shutdowns, CPI increases, unemployment and an Australian standard of living in freefall. Let’s hope the Liberals eventually follow suit once Sussan is replaced.

The rest of the world is rejecting net zero now that its true impacts are being understood, especially Europe. Bill Gates and Tony Blair have worked it out, Australia is fast becoming an outpost.

Ah Penfold glad you could take time out from Netanyahu’s spin doctoring to set us straight on the climate change conspiracy.

None of that is true (aside from the possibility of a political part changing its leader). None.

Confronting isn’t it Axon. Denial isn’t just a river in Eqypt, unfortunately all of it is true.

* Government handouts for energy poverty now exceed $5.3 billion
* Inflation skyrocketed to 3.2% last week
* Unemployment is now 4.5%
* Our standard of living has declined for the past three years
* Tomago is in big trouble, Whyalla needed a bailout, BHPs nickel business has ceased

Stay under the doona if you want, but good on the Nationals for taking a stand. Do you think they might field three candidates in the ACT in 2028 ?

Heywood Smith12:59 pm 03 Nov 25

Careful Penfold, the Climate Change hippies will soon jump down your throat whilst they consume megawatt after megawatt of power keeping themselves warm/cool, made from the burning of coal, whilst driving their ICE vehicles that omit dangerous fumes into the atmosphere. Dont suppose they eat animals of any type do they, we all know how bad methane is for the ozone layer, etc etc etc etc. I wonder how they power their devices they use to post this cr*p.. Oh let me guess,, they are 100% off the grid, fully sustainable via solar panels and their vege patch etc… HAHA!

The rhetorical trick Penfold is using Heywood is to take complex issues and blame on something he doesn’t like based on no correlation or evidence whatsoever.

Sensible people see through it, others might choose to post weird, nonsensical ideological screeds which betray that they don’t know much about energy when they describe personal usages consuming megawatts.

It’s even funnier than that Heywood – they think because we live in the ACT all our power is 💯 % renewable.

In this afternoon’s news, now even sensible Liberals are talking about ditching net zero.

Jeez, how old are you Penfold? “Denial is not a river in Egypt”? I bet they chuckled at that one down at the club because they had all forgotten someone said the same thing yesterday; and the day before.

At least you have tried to put off being shot down by purporting to provide some data, so let us have a look at it.

– Of course there is no budget line item for “handouts for energy poverty” so did you mean, from the budget papers, “$5 billion in rebates being applied to the electricity bills of households and small businesses through the program over 2023–24 and 2024–25”?
If so, then you will have noted the fact described there that this relief is already being withdrawn? Why? Because renewables are cheaper so the need for special support to households from rising infrastructure and unreliable coal costs is declining.

– You will also have noticed that one of the key reasons for the energy spike in the last inflation figures was precisely that existing withdrawal of the above subsidy, so will not continue. You will also have noticed rises in property costs and discretionary expenditure on food and entertainment we principal drivers of the rise. I guess people have money after all.

– No doubt you mention unemployment because you are so pleased that unemployment is way below its 35 year median of 5.7% or 35 year average of 6.3%, although I hear rumours the RBA would like it to be a little higher before they cut interest rates again.

– Yes, high inflation, rising interest rates, and stagnant wage growth have reduced per capital effective income over the last three years, which is precisely why the current taming of inflation, falling interest rates, and increasing wage growth have all contributed to that uptick in discretionary expenditure seen in the inflation figures. People are better off and cautiously feeling so.

– Should I sweat on Tomago or Whyalla? Why, cherry-picker? You realise that coal plants are closing next? Automotive plants closed long ago? Clothing and footwear factories?
Have you noticed that BHP has not ceased investment in nickel, holding its Australian mines on an operational pause because Indonesian nickel is now abundant? Minerals companies are price takers, not setters. BHP manages its assets prudently as it always tries to do and usually does.

Penfold is wrong or misleading. Where has that been noticed before, I wonder?

I do hope the Nationals field as many candidates as they can in the ACT next election. I need a laugh from the four-percenters.

Axon – am old enough to remember when power prices were affordable. But thanks for that treat, every time you post “renewables are cheaper” it’s hard to not think about that river in Eqypt.

But yes, you have one thing right. “$5 billion in rebates being applied to the electricity bills of households and small businesses through the program over 2023–24 and 2024–25” are the energy poverty handouts. We missed the $275 cheaper prices we were promised and finished up – for we taxpayers – having to fork out billions specifically because of the government’s lies and the astronomical price of renewables.

Surely you were laughing when you posted “You will also have noticed that one of the key reasons for the energy spike in the last inflation figures was precisely that existing withdrawal of the above subsidy”. You neglected to mention that prices now are 23.6% higher than last year. Pretty impressive with all these cheap renewables coming on stream.

As for the rest of your post, please refer to the aforementioned African nation’s main inland aquatic feature.

Heywood Smith2:47 pm 03 Nov 25

@seano, and yet your reply contains noting factual, just the usual ‘Im salty because people are not agreeing with me’ response.

Oh I only scan Penfold’s drivel, so I missed this ” Do you think they might field three candidates in the ACT in 2028 ?”

LMAO…oh yes please, the Nats should put all of their resources into the ACT on a No to Net Zero platform….hilarious…add that to the Penfold Hall of Self-Owns along with the time he refused to condemn actual Nazis involved with March “for” Australia, didn’t have the critical thinking skills to realise the claim of a Hamas endorsement of Labor was bogus and literally posted a snarky dig about someone’s grammar while using the incorrect “your”. Funny stuff.

The Nats should definitely run here, One Nation too…and Penfold should nominate….good luck with that. lol.

“renewables are cheaper”… yes they are according to expert analysis (and the Energy Generators & Retailors….the actual for profit power companies agree).
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-29/agenda-energy-csiro/105584856

Not quite sure what all that mean seano. But the good news is no need for Nats in the city – it looks like the Libs are about to ditch net zero too.

Finally, we’ll get another election on energy. Tony Abbott enjoyed the last real one and Gillard didn’t win the previous one either. Now we just need someone leading the Coalition with the skills to completely shred net zero. There’s a few lessons we can take from Europe too.

“@seano, and yet your reply contains noting factual, just the usual ‘Im salty because people are not agreeing with me’ response.”

ORly Heywood?

“The rhetorical trick Penfold is using Heywood is to take complex issues and blame on something he doesn’t like based on no correlation or evidence whatsoever.”

Penfold presents no evidence and makes no correlation between his various whinges about net zero

Reading can be tricky.

“Not quite sure what all that mean seano. But the good news is no need for Nats in the city – it looks like the Libs are about to ditch net zero too.”

IDK why you’re thinking this is a good thing, it will effectively force any remaining moderates out, ensure the teals, who were elected as moderate conservatives concerned about the lack of progress on climate, keep their seats in the cities, create opportunities for more teals and effectively end the LNP as a credible opposition.

As to your embrace of Abbott, he lasted 6 months. If you think the way back is through more climate wars you have not been paying attention or need to turn off skynews and go for a walk, or both.

But bring on those three Nats candidates in the ACT. lmao.

“Denial”….lol Genius stuff as always.

PS. The Nats tore up the Coalition agreement, got some concessions from the Liberals and they were back on board as if nothing happened. No predictions but I would not be shocked if that’s the play here too…only the most delusional amongst the Nats would be believe they can win on this nonsensical platform.

Penzero just proving his secret identity as a left wing plant.

Celebrating the Nationals confirming their continued electoral irrelevance and promoting the Liberal Lemmings to do the same.

All at the same time that Australians confirm support for Net Zero and that Coalition voters want them to present a more progressive, not conservative approach and policy platform.

Funny stuff as usual.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/oct/29/guardian-essential-poll-liberal-voters-progressive-coalition-net-zero

seano – thanks for that rare intrusion into some honesty. That you only scan posts before responding to them does explain a bit. And tbh you seem to apply the same rigour to your own posts as well.

Now that you’ve ventured into that familiar fantasy of those cheaper renewables, perhaps you could answer this. Why is it that every single renewables project needs government funding ? Here’s a list for you, including Canberra’s great big battery.

https://www.dcceew.gov.au/energy/renewable/priority-list

If renewables were cheaper, wouldn’t they be able to stand on their own two feet ?

Take your time, type slowly, i’ll wait.

Heywood – quite true, and don’t forget seano is proud that he never resorts personal sledges. And as for net zero being a “complex issue” – well opposing it is hardly complex, it simply requires being able to add a few numbers together.

“seano – thanks for that rare intrusion into some honesty. That you only scan posts before…”

That’s not what I said, even here you give away the inherent dishonesty of your commentary. I said I scan YOUR posts, and the reason for that should be quite obvious to all, they’re chockfull of nonsense which nobody has time for.

“Why is it that every single renewables project needs government funding ?”

They don’t, so there’s that. Another porkie that can be defeated with a quick google, not that Penfold would ever do that.

But funny point to be making after supporting Dutton whose platform was essentially nationalising energy, because the Energy Generators & Retailers had said no to investing, so that he could build nuclear.

“Heywood – quite true, and don’t forget seano is proud that he never resorts personal sledges. “

Another Penfoldian Porkie, not something I’ve ever said, wow you’re having a bad day.

“And as for net zero being a “complex issue” – well opposing it is hardly complex, it simply requires being able to add a few numbers together.”

Yes apparently it requires adding 2 and 2 and coming up with a $1 trillion figure with no basis in economic reality …lol You’re starting to sound like Dr Evil from the Austin Powers movies.

Comically clueless. Literally.

I can remember when power prices were cheaper too, Penfold, last year, and the year before that, and the decade before that and on when there were no wind farms or solar panels yet prices kept rising; as did the price of ice creams. Penfold discovers inflation.

Reality is that electricity generation is only about a third of power cost, and the wholesale price is cheaper in daytime, when renewables peak, more expensive at night when more reliant on coal, and retail nighttime prices are rising much faster than daytime prices. I can see why you want to moon on about rivers, to avoid reality.

Thanks for agreeing that rebates are being removed as I said, and that this accounted for nearly half of the CPI rise in that component; not needed any more, so your “point” collapses even before you accept (by avoidance) that much of the CPI rise is people spending more on housing and entertainment.

seano can you name a renewables project – and i’ve given you a list of 41 “Generation and Storage Projects” – which does not receive government funding ? Every one of those projects does, perhaps you can find others which don’t.

One such funding mechanism is the “Capacity Investment Scheme” – don’t they have such dreamy names ? The government underwrites revenue for these projects. Which means my taxes pay for them because they can’t pay for themselves. But of course, renewables are cheaper, somewhere over the rainbow at least.

Axon – it’s great you’ve discovered inflation. Now it might be time to move on to mathematics. The Australian Bureau of Statistics produce reports called the Consumer Price Index. It measures household inflation. Now there’s lots of big numbers in them but they tell a story which suggests yours is a fairy tale. Stay with me here, i’ll type slowly.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/consumer-price-index-australia/latest-release#data-downloads

The Rudd government was elected in November 2007 and climate change was the great moral crusade. Hopefully we can agree that’s when renewables started being heavily subsidised and coal and gas penalised.

Now if you look at two sets of numbers (See Table 9, Data 6 worksheet):

1. Index Numbers ; Electricity ; Australia
2. Index Numbers ; All groups CPI ; Australia

You’ll be able to determine how the price of electricity has risen compared to CPI – all goods and services.

The September 2007 and the September 2025 quarters are the relevant ones. Now hold your horses, here’s where some maths comes in.

Colum AD
Electricity September 2007: 61.0
Electricity September 2007: 156.3
Change: 156%

Column CU
CPI September 2007: 88.3
CPI September 2007: 143.6
Change: 62%

This means Electricity has gone up over 150% more than inflation since September 2007.

So besides “inflation”, can you offer a real explanation why electricity has skyrocketed since renewables started being subsidised ?

Thanks !

“Hopefully we can agree that’s when renewables started being heavily subsidised and coal and gas penalised.”

Why would anyone agree to a starting assumption that is a blatant lie?

The rest gets worse from there, as usual.

“seano can you name a renewables project – and i’ve given you a list of 41 “Generation and Storage Projects” – which does not receive government funding ?”

But you said that they ALL renewable projects required government funding Penfold, So now you’ve changed your position having been caught out. Hilarious…if only we could harness the electricity from your back pedalling we’d hit net zero by 2028.

As to your other point that you haven’t thought through….yes, there is government funding for renewables….because Australians need energy….you know what there also is government funding for Penfold? Coal and gas champion. LMAO. Genius stuff Penfold.

Meanwhile renewables remain the cheapest form of new energy and no one is building new coal fired power stations in Australia…not even the cooked QLD LNP government. lol

So much beclowning….lol

PS. Privately funded clean energy projects are everywhere…eg. Hazelwood Battery

https://engie.com.au/about-us/our-generation-activities/battery-storage/hazelwood-battery

So when you make sweeping statements like “All renewables projects require government funding” not only is it a simplistic misrepresentation of the energy market and how it works….you’re also wrong.

More proof that cutting & pasting the talking points without applying any critical thinking is a tad silly.

As ever a reminder that beclowning yourself is not a requirement.

seano – are you now saying you do read posts ? Goodness it’s hard to keep up.

But good on you for finding a renewable project that does appear to have been funded privately. Must have taken hours of googling. Now that we know it’s possible, presumably you’re going to call for the cessation of all funding to renewable projects, given how cheap they are. Why do they even need funding, can you explain ?

Btw it’s an odds-on bet (Happy Melbourne Cup Day) that the Liberals are going to follow the Nats and ditch net zero. With COP30 on next week and 10 of the G20 refusing to make the required net-zero commitments the Coalition are hardly alone. Could be a fiery meeting, pardon the pun ! 🔥 ✈️

“But good on you for finding a renewable project that does appear to have been funded privately.”

Penfold admits his initial premise was nonsense…it’s bound to happen when you cut & paste the talking points without applying any critical thinking. One way to avoid this would be to stop banging on about energy when you’re demonstrably clueless and are constantly caught out.

Meanwhile as you get super excited about the Nats dictating policy to the Liberals (betraying no understanding of Australian politics whatsoever) as someone who crows about every slight bump in the polls it must be heartbreaking to see the LNP posting their lowest Newspoll ever, while Net Zero remains popular with the majority of Australians. lol.

Dumping Next Zero is a self own of Penfoldian proportions…don’t believe me ask a Liberal MP on the Nat’s latest dumb move:
‘”‘They are terrorists,’ one unnamed Liberal MP told The Australian. ‘The first rule of being a parasite is not to kill your host.'”‘
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15250781/Politics-Australia-Sussan-Ley-Coalition-Labor-Nationals.html

“Grants=good” not all grants are good Capital, some are throwing good money after bad….

https://reneweconomy.com.au/vales-point-coal-plant-to-get-8-7m-handout-for-upgrades-but-not-life-extension-45809

Nice find CR.

It was too good to be true wasn’t it seano.

Can you find any renewable project not demanding handouts ? Seems our government tried to sneak this one behind our backs. Imagine that. 🚔

“Penfold admits his initial premise was nonsense…it’s bound to happen when you cut & paste the talking points without applying any critical thinking. One way to avoid this would be to stop banging on about energy when you’re demonstrably clueless and are constantly caught out.”

Apology accepted seano.

I did Penfold…

https://engie.com.au/about-us/our-generation-activities/battery-storage/hazelwood-battery

Did you two Einstein’s even read Capital’s link.

“On 16 September 2022, the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) announced the approval of an AUD 47.5 million (approx. USD 31.8 million) grant towards ENGIE’s ‘renewable hydrogen and ammonia proj”

You’re comparing different projects. How embarrassing.

There was no apology Penfold, you were caught out telling a porkie. There are privately funded renewables projects.

Now as you always do when you lose you start making things up.

Making things up, is that like when you claimed the ACT runs on 100% renewable power ? 🤣

That’s not what I said, you just cannot help but be disingenous….it gets worse (and the emojis start appearing) the more you lose…

The ACT sources 100% of its energy from renewable sources.
https://www.climatechoices.act.gov.au/energy/what-the-act-government-is-doing

Only a fool would seek to map the path of individual electrons and think they are making a clever point.

Chewy14 has already noted Penfold’s lie about 2007, so let us look more closely at the data Penfold so woefully misunderstands and misrepresents.

From 2007 to 2018 the electricity index rose 130%, or 7.8%/year.
From 2018 to 2025 the index rose 11%, or 1.5% per year.
Now, when do you think renewables really started to kick in?

I have already shown that in the last five years the retail price of nighttime electricity, dominantly coal, has risen much faster than the price of daytime electricity, dominantly renewables.

Penfold, please stay away from mathematics or statistics. You are not old enough.

I also plotted the index from 1980 to today and fitted a polynomial. It shows that since about 1920 the rate of rise has been declining with renewables kicking in this decade.

Of course Penfold talked rubbish when he pretended I had mentioned only inflation. I had commented that electricity generation was only about a third of the retail price. Contributors include ailing old coal power plants, electricity demand surging beyond population growth, new infrastructure and ‘gold plating’ of same. Penfold wears blinkers.

Renewables are demonstrated to be cheaper : fact.

typo: 2020, not 1920 !!

Capital Retro4:21 pm 04 Nov 25

If we get 100% renewable energy and renewables are the cheapest form of energy why are ACT energy bills rising?

By the way, I thought gas wasn’t renewable.

Capital Retro4:25 pm 04 Nov 25

Eight years after Engie closed Hazelwood mine they still have not rehabilitated the site.
How’s that for a concession?

They probably don’t get title to the site until the clean-up is completed.

Engie proposes to flood the mine pit – full of toxic coal ash left behind from the mine – with freshwater taken from the Latrobe River.

Filling such a huge hole would take more water than Sydney Harbour, and brings serious consequences for the Latrobe River system, Traditional Owners, the local community, and other industries in the region such as agriculture.

“If we get 100% renewable energy and renewables are the cheapest form of energy why are ACT energy bills rising?”

Capital confirms yet again that he will bang on relentlessly about energy without doing any actual reading.

Energy prices are due to a complex set of issues but significant factors include (and are not limited to) an aging coal fleet, aging and inadequate transmission, the bulk of our gas going offshore for which Australia gets a pittance (thanks for nothing John Howard), not enough renewables (8 years of energy stagnation as the LNP did nothing didn’t help), not enough storage (this coming and will have significant impact)….nuclear can’t fix this, too slow/expensive and neither can coal which is also too slow/expensive and will increase emissions.

I have no idea what the rambling comment about mine rehab is about but it seems you’re on board with making fossil fuel companies pay for the environmental damage they’ve caused…so that’s progress.

“By the way, I thought gas wasn’t renewable.”

Whoosh!

“If we get 100% renewable energy and renewables are the cheapest form of energy why are ACT energy bills rising?”

Its funny that the ACT electricity bills have been rising significantly less than the rest of Australia isn’t it?

Why do you think that is CR?

If one were to think like that Penzero fellow, you might be able to make a correlation with the 100% renewable contracts.

Capital Retro6:19 pm 04 Nov 25

Thanks for confirming the myth that renewables are cheaper.

BTW, Engie is one of those “fossil fuel companies”

Axon if you don’t like the Australian Bureau of Statistics Statistics, well best take it up with them. I’m just helping you understand what they mean. They also indicate power prices have risen 37% under this government since September 2024. Ouch.

Btw big word, “polynomial”. Five syllables, we’re getting past seanonomic limitations here. Axon a polynomial is a sum of one or more terms. It doesn’t “fit” anything. Sure, 1920 was a typo, but it’s consistent with all your other typos.

seano CR makes a very simple point. If the ACT is 100% renewable, and they’re the cheapest, why is ACT energy so expensive and rising ?

Capital Retro9:36 pm 04 Nov 25

Who is making the rambling comment?

Is clear-felling pristine wilderness and scarring the mountain tops with ugly roads where hundreds of tonnes of concrete are dumped not environmental damage?

Seano answers “Energy prices are due to a complex set of issues but significant factors include (and are not limited to) an aging coal fleet, aging and inadequate transmission, the bulk of our gas going offshore for which Australia gets a pittance”

Seano, the question that was asked was why are ACT energy bills rising if the ACT is 100% renewable. Renewable is the operative word, but Seano answers because of coal and gas

If we get 100% of our electricity from renewables, how do our lights work at night ?

Batteries ? No.
Solar ? Nope.
Wind ? Maybe 30% of the time.
Hydro ? Sometimes.

So where does the rest of it come from ? 🏭

“seano CR makes a very simple point. If the ACT is 100% renewable, and they’re the cheapest, why is ACT energy so expensive and rising ?”

Penzero shoots himself in the foot once again.

ACT 100% renewables, nearly the cheapest power in Australia and increasing slower than other areas of the country that rely more heavily on fossil fuels.

By his own logic he just claimed renewables provide cheaper power.

Good for him to finally admit it.

😂😂😂👨‍🦯👨‍🦯👨‍🦯

More than 50% of NEM electricity provided by renewables in October, reality doesnt slow down for the clueless.

“Thanks for confirming the myth that renewables are cheaper.”

Puerile Capital, I suggest you can do better but the evidence prove that contention. Clearly renewables are the cheapest form of new energy, wilful ignorance does not defeat facts.

“BTW, Engie is one of those “fossil fuel companies””

So?

“Seano, the question that was asked was why are ACT energy bills rising if the ACT is 100% renewable. Renewable is the operative word, but Seano answers because of coal and gas”

The question was answered. What you’re demonstrating here Futureproof is that much like Capital and Penfold you don’t understand how the Australian Energy Market works but are willing to comment on it anyway. Which in turn proves your opinions are ideological and not based on data and evidence.

Penfold, ignoring your childish nonsense but on the off chance you’d like to be informed 36% of Australia’s energy comes from renewable sources.

https://www.energy.gov.au/energy-data/australian-energy-statistics/renewables

100% Of Canberra’s energy is sourced from renewables.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-01/act-is-100-per-cent-renewable-but-what-does-that-mean/11560356

Only a fool would pretend that the path of individual electrons is meaningful.

FP you’re trying to argue logic to a post devoid of it.

Speaking of laughs though, how about Bowen’s attempt the other day to try to describe coal power as intermittent 🫣

seano – thanks again for that great link you’ve posted many times. Are you aware it contains this observation:

“As the vast majority of the electricity produced on the grid is from non-renewable sources, the power that Canberrans consume at any time may well have been generated by burning coal or gas.”

No need to answer my earlier question about night time electricity – your link does that.

Thank you. Feel free to keep the own goals coming.

But wait, there’s more.

seano: “Penfold, ignoring your childish nonsense but on the off chance you’d like to be informed 36% of Australia’s energy comes from renewable sources.”

https://www.energy.gov.au/energy-data/australian-energy-statistics/renewables

The first comment on the web page:

“Renewable energy sources accounted for 9% of Australian energy consumption in 2023-24.”

So who’s correct – energy.gov.au or seano ?

“seano – thanks again for that great link you’ve posted many times. Are you aware it contains this observation:”

As pointed out you, Capital and Futureproof not understanding how the Australian Energy Market works is not argument in and of itself, it’s just a demonstration that some people aren’t willing to let ignorance get in the way of their opinions.

Meanwhile what do you call a coal unit that spends weeks offline an an aging coal fleet where this is a regular occurrence if not intermittent.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-16/coal-reliability-report-outages-loy-yang-yallourn-latrobe-valley/105296552

‘seano: “Penfold, ignoring your childish nonsense but on the off chance you’d like to be informed 36% of Australia’s energy comes from renewable sources.”‘

Well aware as you know, as I’ve pointed out to you before only a fool would argue about the pathway of individual electrons.

It’s no more sensible an argument than arguing about which individual drops of water in Lake Burley Griffin came from the Molonglo River and which came from rainfall.

36% of our electricity comes from renewable sources, yet the lights don’t go out. 100% of the ACT’s contribution to the AEMO comes from renewables. Your not understanding how that works, or more correctly tedious, wilful ignorance is not an argument.

Speaking of comprehension issues seano, you seem to have changed your tune again.

One minute:

“36% of Australia’s energy comes from renewable sources”

Next minute:

“36% of our electricity comes from renewable sources”

Now if you don’t comprehend the difference between electricity and energy, perhaps a refresher course of Energy 101 is in order.

And while you’re at it, with statements like “100% of the ACT’s contribution to the AEMO comes from renewables.” you might want a refresh on the difference between electricity generation and electricity consumption.

Let us know when you’re up to date. Though it’s most entertaining learning that CR, FP and I all don’t understand these issues and only you do. 😂🧚‍♀️

No I understand energy and I understand the energy market.

I also understand that all you’ve got as an argument is pouncing on mistake in a bad faith show of petulance. A reasoned person might point out the correction (or even let it go) but accept the augment as it was intended. But you demonstrate time again that you’re neither a reasonable person nor have a valid argument.

You’re exactly the sort of person who will critique a person’s grammar in lieu of an actual on topic point whilst using the incorrect “your” as you did recently. Spiteful and not that clever.

“you might want a refresh on the difference between electricity generation and electricity consumption.”….you might want to stop pretending that this is a point. It’s not. The ACT’s contribution to the AEM comes from 100% renewable sources.

“Though it’s most entertaining learning that CR, FP and I all don’t understand these issues and only you do.”

Again disingenuous because that’s all you’ve got, I never claimed to be an expert or sole authority, I did point out that neither you, FutureProof or Capital know what you’re talking about but the evidence backs me up on that as well.

Hilarious to see Penzero attempt to correct others about the same exact mistakes he’s made repeatedly.

Also notice he’s stayed away from the ACT 100% renewable supplied power being the cheapest in the country compared to other states who are more reliant on fossil fuel generators.

Really destroys his attempts at correlation for the renewable energy impacts on power prices.

Where did I say I did not like the ABS data, Penfold? Nowhere. As usual after failure, you attempt mendacious diversion. Your strange claim about renewables has been shot to bits in the official records so you are scrambling for any sort of comeback. Ooh look, a mouldy cherry!

I did warn you to stay away from statistics Penfold. I am sure that the major statistical software companies such as iBM’s SPSS, SAS, Matlab, and Stata Corp are all waiting to hear from you that their functions to fit polynomials to data are all wrong. Your gleeful ignorance is quite amazing.

ABS data shows 7.8%/year rise 2007-2018 and 1.5%/year 2018 to 2025. The ABS electricity index, 5-year retail data, and investment choices and plans by industry all show that renewables are cheaper. Only the National Party four-percenters and their Goldphish hangers-on deny that reality.

Enjoy.
(I am)

Sorry buddy, condescension has turned into schadenfreude. You’ve earned it. 👍

Capital Retro12:25 pm 05 Nov 25

With all your knowledge and chewy’s intellect can you tell me how I can get cheap renewable electricity and gas in Canberra Seano?

Seano said, “I also understand that all you’ve got as an argument is pouncing on mistake in a bad faith show of petulance” Perhaps the Net Zero mind virus is deadlier than first thought. Keep driving with that mask on. Should protect you

“Sorry buddy, condescension has turned into schadenfreude. You’ve earned it.”

More like incoherence. These is not a comment on energy, which you don’t demonstrably don’t understand, or the energy politics in which you seem to believe, despite all available evidence that abandoning Net Zero helps the Coalition it’s a demonstration of your petulance having lost again.

“With all your knowledge and chewy’s intellect can you tell me how I can get cheap renewable electricity and gas in Canberra Seano?”

Easy Capital, keep voting for people who have sensible policies on climate and energy….or maybe start.

Also this might be useful:
https://www.iselect.com.au/energy

“Perhaps the Net Zero mind virus is deadlier than first thought. Keep driving with that mask on. Should protect you”….wow….way say that you have no argument here FutureProof because you’re out your depth. lol.

BTW pretty funny stuff posting cooked (and inaccurate) comments about masks. You have no idea what my position is on masks but I guarantee I could run rings around you in any argument on the relevant science and/or public policy aspects, but seriously it’s nearly 2026….time to get over it dude.

Axon – well done for at least attempting to debate statistics, you’re doing much better that some of your buddies. I wondered the relevance of 2018 then worked it out – that was when the index was highest before Coalition policies kicked in again. You didn’t mention the electricity 10% price decrease over the next 18 quarters, very sneaky of you.

Let’s just repeat that since you kindly highlighted it – 10% electricity price decrease over the next 18 quarters under Coalition policies. That’s 4 ½ years fyi. Then in came Albo and whooshka, up went prices 23%.

Btw nice googling of those BI tools. SAS sitting on top of a Teradata EDW is a bit of a favourite, but you can do pretty cool things with Power BI as well. It does polynomial trendlines too. 🍒

What’s a “cooked comment” ?

Is it emissions free ?

Penfold, the Nationals putting up any candidates in Canberra is a joke. Canberra is a rusted on Labor state and that wont change. The idea of the Nationals putting even one candidate is a waste of resources. This comes from a life long Liberal supporter who will vote independant next ellection if net zero isnt in their policies.

It’s the vast majority of your comments Penfold and yes it is emissions free considering you’re in the ACT where our contribution to the AEM is 100% renewables.

You’re welcome.

I see Capital Retro now also doesn’t want to compare the ACT’s electricity prices with our interstate counterparts.

Hmmm, wonder why that would be….

clarkea – the suggestion wasn’t particularly serious though if there’s trouble in paradise then three-cornered contests would result. Luckily for the Coalition – but not for yourself – it appears the Liberals are heading to ditching net zero.

If that’s too much for you then vote for an indie. But maybe wait and see how much of the world is crab-walking away from net zero with its trillion dollar industry-smashing and standard-of-living-shredding price tag for negligible benefit.

Just ask Bill Gates and Tony Blair why they’ve seen the light.

https://www.axios.com/2025/11/04/climate-bill-gates-memo

Penfold claimed there was no such thing as a polynomial fit. I showed he was wrong (obviously), so Penfold tries to recover some shred of credibility by pretending it is not he who is googling to catch up. But if he already knew, why lie first, knowing he will lose? If he didn’t know, what sort of dill pretends he did, knowing he will lose? Goldphish’s Choice.

2018 was the time where renewables rose from 15% to 19% of generation, a significant proportion with continuing rise, so it made a reasonable point to choose. I have also mentioned the five year period 2021-2025 which demonstrates renewables electricity costs have risen slower than fossil-fuelled electricity costs so he has no point again.

Penfold then tries to divert to “coalition policies”. Does he mean their policies during the record rate of rise before 2018? Does he mean policies which did not stop the growth of those renewables which reduced the rate of increase of electricity prices? That is the subject, whoever is in power, and Penfold is now admitting exactly the shift in cost growth that I explained. He even wants to give credit to the LNP for supporting renewables which achieved the flattening.

Penfold has effectively admitted that renewables are cheaper, a fact explained above on three different and consistent measures. His blithering attempts to disparage others after being caught out on his ignorance is just the way he is, that is all.

Capital Retro5:19 pm 05 Nov 25

Maybe because I don’t live interstate chewy but while you are there please tell me why our cheapest energy in the country keeps going up in price.

Capital Retro5:32 pm 05 Nov 25

ActewAGL who bring us the cheapest energy in Australia are not on that list, Seano.

So, why would I want to buy from an interstate supplier?

Capital Retro has now unwittingly answered his own pointless question without even realising it.

Can’t see anyone here but you suggesting electricity prices should go down, it’s the rate of change that’s the issue and the causes for that change.

Instead of blindly disparaging renewables, you could answer the questions why our electricity prices have gone up significantly less than other states in recent years?
And why our prices are lower overall despite our heavier reliance on renewables?

By you and the Zeros logic, we should have the most expensive electricity that would be increasing higher than other areas.

Also ActewAGL are in that link, perhaps that explains your difficulty, we know you’ve been having trouble with various websites recently.

Maybe time for you to head back to the Mercury devices and working out their various orifice applications.

Capital you’ve had this stuff explained to you many times. You’re not interested in the answer because your opinion his is not about energy costs it’s about ideology. And as it’s about ideology it can be dismissed.

Quite the fantasy world you live in Penfold where you have to pretend that Bill Gates is moving away from action on climate change when he’s actually arguing for prioritising the poor in climate initiatives. The article you link which you clearly haven’t read explains that.

“the suggestion wasn’t particularly serious though” of course your suggesting that three Nats should run in the ACT was serious ….until people started to scoff….if only we could harness the energy generated from your backpedalling Penfold.

“Luckily for the Coalition – but not for yourself – it appears the Liberals are heading to ditching net zero” … to form government the Coalition needs to win seats in the cities…ditching Net Zero is a gift to the teals who are mostly in former blue ribbon Liberal city seats. Your analysis that this is good for the LNP is comically clueless.

All that’s been achieved is that, as one Liberal MP told the Australian, the Nats have finally killed off the host.

Genius stuff as always Penfold…lol

Axon as you are having a discussion with a third party it’s obviously not appropriate that i respond.

But for the record you’re welcome to explain the significance of your repeated references to 2018 power prices. 🙂

seano – as a political commentator you’d make a great energy industry commentator. Or is that electricity industry commentator …. or electron commentator …. so confusing ….

Penfold admits something we’ve all known for awhile …he’s clueless.

Testing various options for smoothing, or simply looking at the scatterplot, the turnover point for flattening of the rate of rise of power prices is always in the region 2018-2020, and the result in every case is that the rate of rise flattens from a decade or so ago to recent years as more renewables come on line. This is precisely as expected and well understood by actual decision makers and analysts in the field, not by CIS/IPA/Sky culture warriors.

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