8 September 2025

Opposition in serious damage control with Australia's Indian community

| By Chris Johnson
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Liberal Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price has accused a senior colleague of acting “cowardly” over her remark about Indian migrants. Photo: WikiCommons.

The federal Liberal Party is scrambling to contain a bitter internal dispute that has gone public and threatens to undermine any relationship it hopes to have with Australia’s Indian community.

Following last week’s remarks from shadow minister Jacinta Nampijinpa Price suggesting Indian migrants were being allowed into Australia in large numbers because they vote Labor, the Coalition has been in desperate damage control.

The Indian community was a target of the recent anti-immigration protest rallies around Australia.

Senator Price has subsequently said her comments were a “mistake”, but she has also refused to apologise for them, instead saying it was actually the media’s fault she said what she did.

Opposition Leader Sussan Ley has been trying to douse the fire by talking up the importance of the Indian community to Australian society and by stating Senator Price’s comments were wrong.

But she won’t offer an apology on Senator Price’s behalf.

The ongoing saga blew up further on Sunday (7 September) when the Northern Territory Senator released a lengthy statement on social media accusing senior Liberal Party colleague Alex Hawke of acting “cowardly and inappropriately” towards her office following her media remarks last Thursday.

Mr Hawke is the Manager of Opposition Business and was reportedly furious over Senator Price’s comments about Indian voters.

Senator Price accused him of “berating one of my staff” and threatened that the Senator would be treated “like another female member of the Coalition” if she didn’t change her behaviour.

(In the lead-up to this year’s election, Senator Jane Hume suggested Chinese “spies” were volunteering for Labor. Following the election, she was relegated to the Opposition’s backbench.)

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“Later that day, I sent him a WhatsApp message to call out his cowardly and inappropriate conduct,” Senator Price wrote.

“If people want to talk about a so-called ‘woman problem’ in the Liberal Party, then it’s this: we don’t stand up for women when they are mistreated by our own colleagues … I’ve also been disappointed by some media reporting which has been agenda-driven and wrenched my comments from context.

“I’ve had members of the Indian community reach out to me in solidarity.”

Mr Hawke, who was immigration minister in the Morrison government, issued his own statement midday Sunday to try to rein in the party’s spiralling crisis.

He didn’t address Senator Price’s accusations against him, but did refer to her comments from last week about Indian migrants.

He joined her in blaming the media.

“As a former Minister for Immigration, Citizenship, Migrant Services and Multicultural Affairs, I am 100 per cent supportive of our Australian Indian community,” Mr Hawke said.

“I have worked closely with this deeply patriotic community, which is made up of hardworking, skilled and successful Australians who have embraced their new home with real passion.

“Their commitment and contribution to our country is beyond question.

“Any reasonable person must reject the targeting of Indian Australians. The extremist and hate literature that was recently circulated prior to anti-immigration rallies is abhorrent.

“That behaviour must be condemned by anyone who supports a free, fair and tolerant society. No racial group should be targeted and vilified in Australia.

“I have spoken with Senator Price and accepted her explanation of how her comments have been misinterpreted and subsequently weaponised by Labor.

“I support her ongoing work to clarify the comments she made last week and helping return this debate to the issue of overall migration levels and having a sustainable migration program.”

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Ms Ley appeared on the ABC’s Insiders on Sunday morning and, while condemning Senator Price’s comments, she would not apologise for them.

“The comments were wrong, they were not correct, they should not have taken place, and corrections have been made,” the Opposition Leader said.

“They will not be repeated. But what I said subsequent to those comments and what I want to say now as well is to express my deep appreciation to the Indian community for all they have brought to Australia … We value, respect and love our Indian community, as we do all of our migrant communities. And I made that point subsequent to those remarks because I did hear from the Indian community that they felt hurt at what they heard.”

But Ms Ley would not disclose if she chastised Senator Price for making the remarks.

Neither would she apologise on behalf of the maverick Senator, even though she was asked three times if she would.

“Others will make their own remarks,” she said.

“I know that as leader, the most important message that I can send is that appreciation of our Indian community, heard directly from me as leader.”

By Sunday afternoon, the Opposition Leader was taking a tour of Little India in Sydney to meet local business people. She acknowledged that Senator Price’s comments had been “hurtful”.

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I don’t see how highly slanderous Price’s comments about Indian Migrants were, if anything they sound a little paranoid. But I know the majority of people I meet are apprehensive about how many people from Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka. I admit I’m biased towards people from that part of Asia but at the same time I can see what others are complaining about.

Here’s something I think both sides should be able to agree on about this whole immigration debate: the Australian economy should be able to function without the need to create growth by boosting our population. No government has addressed that in 25 years. There is a bigger underlying issue here. Someone here blames our own low birth rates. Well why? Its the same underlying issues and I will give you a clue, Labor hasn’t been in power for most of the last 30 years.

I read news articles and watch reports on the decrease of birth rates in other countries, I gather it’s similar down under. If this is the case, having Liberals or Labour in power isn’t going to make a difference. It’s about social/cultural issues, not Government.

Its a bit like saying that John Howard let in more Chinese migrants because they voted Liberal.
Unless Jacinta & Penfold have evidence of Albo or other Ministers or their advisers directing Immigration Officers to favour Indian citizens its just so much BS.

In any case Indian people do not necessarily vote Labor.

So the ABS statistics aren’t good enough for you franky ?

The facts are simple and they disagree entirely with you. Keep sprouting though.

The thing that Penfold and the rest of comically clueless miss is that every Australian vote is up for grabs at the next election and there’s no reason why the LNP couldn’t win it. But they not only allow Price to paint the Liberal Party into a very small corner they help her do it.

To take it a step further, any data we have on “indian voting trends” (whatever racist nonsense that even is) would be from people that have lived here long enough to be citizens and have voting rights which implies that the Libs imported them to vote Labor??? Just BS. For a bunch of so called patriots, they love to import culture wars as seano would say. Where’s the aussie made conspiracies ffs

Even Price has admitted she was wrong. She of course hasn’t apologised, typical of the MAGA wing of the Liberal Party but it is amusing that the far right circus clowns are still banging on about and completely embarrassing themselves trying to defend this nonsense.

Ducking & obfuscating as usual Penfold. Show us any evidence that the Government has directed Immigration to favour Indian people to come to Australia.

HiddenDragon11:42 pm 08 Sep 25

This article, and several others which drew on the same background information, make clear that Price’s comments were based on more than anecdata and/or Fox News/Sky After Dark agendas and talking points –

https://www.theindiansun.com.au/2025/08/18/why-85-of-indian-australians-voted-labor/

When the mea culpas (with or without apologies as such) are done with, there are broader issues touched on in that article – particularly about age and aspiration – which the Liberals should be far more focused on.

It’s a yougov poll…so already off to a bad start, let alone the fact that it’s one election, there’s nothing here but please do explain how Labor orchestrates this campaign…you know in the real world. lol

This is just Price seeking to get her head on Skynews with the usual dog whistling, you are right though, there’s plenty of other things that the Liberals should be focusing. But once again they’ve let Price derail them.

Okay yes some correlations can be drawn. We have a higher number of indian migrants as a percentage of overall migration. As with any ethnic migration wave, they tend to come all at once. Italians, greeks, lebanese, scottish, english… they all came in big waves and tend to bring family over. It is also pretty common for younger people to migrate, starting new lives and such. Younger people are more likely to lean left. So yes in some way you could draw that conclusion but what about the rest of migrants that aren’t indian? And how exactly does labor achieve importing people only with a specific view. Also, any Indians voting came here during liberal government to have achieved citizenship so Abbott orchestrated this. But nah, no critical thinking here just more sky after dark conspiracy.

Good to see that those immigrants are young and well-educated, HiddenDragon. It bodes well for our society in the future.

One thing’s for certain: mass migration in Australia is largely connected with an insufficient pre-mass migration birth rate. And what’s the insufficient pre-mass migration birth rate connected to? Why, the ieftwing inability to plan ahead and build civilisation, with everyone drunk on imaginary entitlements and doing what feels right.

And now it somehow imagines that bringing in people from overseas and then subjecting them to the same short term investment mentality is a winner, and that if you happen to notice the stupidity you’re on the far right.

Not one thing on the Left appreciates what it takes to build and then maintain civilisations, but it’s the best of the best when it comes to destroying or disintentivising them.

“One thing’s for certain: mass migration in Australia is largely connected with an insufficient pre-mass migration birth rate.”

Counterpoint: No it’s not.

None of that is true….laugh out loud funny…but not true.

Vasily with the usual 1 + 1 and getting 5,111,222 comment.

I guess living in actual reality is hard for some.

As with most of Penfolds posts he studiously avoids the issue so he can insert his ideology.
The issues are
1. Are Indian migrants being favoured
2. Do they vote Labor

For which there’s no proof whatsoever…it’s just rehashed American culture wars nonsense, Jacinta not being smart enough to invent her own culture wars nonsense.

Answered #1 already franky. Indian migration is up 40% as a % of overall migration in the past three years.

The issue was whether Labor bring in Indians because they vote Labor. You’d have to ask Burke, who’s as transparent as brick wall. But here’s something to consider:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-09/indian-australian-community-support-labor-federal-election/105259192

Classic Penfold misrepresent and misdirect. Overall immigration is trending down. The story he’s linked are individual anecdotes related to one election….nothing to prove a voting block or even that any of these individuals would consider voting Liberal at the next election.

Although I can’t imagine that Price’s latest nonsense is helping sell the Liberal party to anyone sensible…not when the NSN literally hijacked and led marches on the weekend.

Seano, perhaps you can explain why the ABS is projecting Australia’s population to be 38m by 2050 given immigration is trending down according to you and Labor? The ABS is predicting average annual growth of 420,000 for 25 years. While that’s slightly down on the first 3 Albanese years, it’s still significantly higher than population growth over the decade prior to covid.

Penfold I have never seen you respond specifically to any query ever – you deflect, change the subject or obfuscate and stop putting in links to other articles as nobody reads them

Garfield….well when a bird and a bee really like each other….lol

“Federal government figures show the NOM for the 12 months to 31 December 2024 was 341,000 people. That’s down 37% compared to the NOM’s peak, of 538,000, in the 2022-23 year.

That record number, covering the period when Labor took office in May 2022, came after the former Coalition “stomped on the immigration accelerator” after the closure of Australia’s international borders during the Covid pandemic, Rizvi said, in a bid to make up shortfalls.”

Immigration is trending down.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/sep/01/anti-immigration-protesters-say-australias-migration-is-at-record-highs-but-the-figures-tell-a-different-story

Well frank it’s hard to work out how to respond much more directly to your question.

Franky: “1. Are Indian migrants being favoured” …. “Penfold I have never seen you respond specifically to any query ever”

10:36 8 September: “Turns out the numbers tell us Indian migration has exploded. It’s been the highest single country of migration for the past three years. Up until 2020-21 it averaged 10% of migration, for the past three years it’s averaged 14%.”

Frankly franky, if that’s not a clear answer, even based straight from the ABS migration data, then it’s hard to help you much further.

Immigration is trending down, you haven’t proven a voting bloc, or an orchestrated campaign…it’s the usual nonsense and dog whistling.

“Franky: “1. Are Indian migrants being favoured” …. “Penfold I have never seen you respond specifically to any query ever”

10:36 8 September: “Turns out the numbers tell us Indian migration has exploded. It’s been the highest single country of migration for the past three years. Up until 2020-21 it averaged 10% of migration, for the past three years it’s averaged 14%.””

Pengold once again fails to understand the difference between correlation and causation, ironically as usual making the point for other commenters.

Being “favoured” means that they are given priority over other nationalities, not simply that there are proportionally more migrants coming from one region for a period of time.

To make your argument, you would need to show where in the policy or assessment space, they are being given preference.

We know you struggle with logic but if you can’t think of the obvious reason why more Indians are arriving that has nothing to do with being “favoured”, there’s little help for you.

Once again, Pengold is actually trashing what could be a far more nuanced discussion around the role/amount of immigration and it’s impacts on overall economic and social outcomes.

Truly is the best left-wing plant, how bad he makes right wingers look.

Stephen Saunders12:27 pm 08 Sep 25

Price’s remarks are factual and easily verified, ask Matt Barrie or Leith van Onselen. But Sussan Ley Green Teals are entirely focused on placating the subcontinent, and fitting in with awful Albanese. Too bad about unwashed voters, who 80% want lower migration.

Approximately 220 of our 227 federal reps, have been carefully preselected, to automatically vote for Big Australia. Where would we be without democracy?

They’re not factual Stephen, anyone with an even basis understanding of the Australian political system and some critical thinking skills would know that. Oh right.

As for this bizarre comment:
“Approximately 220 of our 227 federal reps, have been carefully preselected, to automatically vote for Big Australia. Where would we be without democracy?”

It must be fun being a conspiracy theorist because every day is a “choose your own adventure”…don’t like something…just make up some nonsense to make yourself feel better. lol.

“We don’t like ’em cause they vote labor” well maybe ring up some of scomos old work mates from tourism australia and start asking the far right nations “where the bloody hell are you?”. First its the numbers, proven to be factually incorrect, then its the culture, also not true, so now it becomes “I don’t like how they vote”. Hahahahaha getting closer to the truth.

The whole thing is just imported America culture wars nonsense.

Although kudos to the Liberals for allowing Jacinta Price to hijack the debate again and make them look like a bunch of fools at best…you’d think the damage she did to Dutton’s campaign would have been enough to shame Price in to being at least a bit introspective and to encourage Ley to censor this fool but as we all know Ley is merely a placeholder for Hastie.

It may or may not have been said with a tone of misogyny. But to act so shocked when someone warns Price that she’s risking the same fate as the laughable Jane Hume, just points to how clueless she is.

Silly comments by Price, but are they factual ?

Turns out the numbers tell us Indian migration has exploded. It’s been the highest single country of migration for the past three years. Up until 2020-21 it averaged 10% of migration, for the past three years it’s averaged 14%.

Perhaps Burke could explain why and is it anything to do with western Sydney electoral seats ?

“Silly comments by Price, but are they factual ?” No, it’s just imported culture wars nonsense attempting to lean into bigotry and fear. Absolutely shameful after members of the NSN lead marches misusing people’s concerns about levels of immigration.

Immigration is trending down. Australians don’t vote in racial blocks. You can thank the fact that we have compulsory and preferential voting for protecting us from American stupidity.

Only the mafematically challenged claim immigration is falling. Although speaking of “culture wars”, isn’t mafs a th show ?

I think they make good migrants. They’re generally intelligent, hard working, blend in pretty easy by way of their love of cricket and don’t seem to despise our way of life or want to harm us. They’re happy to celebrate their own religion without trying to ram it down our throats as the best and only.

Penfold you can’t misrepresent the post pandemic surge forever…well of course you could but a sensible person wouldn’t.

Also, no proof whatsoever that any immigrant population block votes for for any political party…but don’t let that in the way of pushing this nonsense.

Agreed Elf they do make good migrants. You describe the contribution of the community well. What community would be out playing cricket at the Mint Oval at 4pm on a winter’s Sunday in minus temperatures. Crazies 🙂

It’s the numbers that are the issue. The largest single national migration in a year was over 108,000 people from India in 2022-23. That’s not much more than our entire net migration 20 years ago.

It’s completely unsustainable and detrimental to the rest of the community (migration overall, not Indian migration per se).

What happened just before 2022-23 Penfold? Any clues champ? Keep misrepresenting the one off post pandemic surge and I’ll keep calling it out.

Nice use of the word “they” there too chaps, very classy.

Call it out all you want. But first you might want to read the graphs. As we know you can’t so allow me to help – migration was significantly lower, pre covid too.

Perhaps you don’t use the roads, the education system or are familiar with the housing market. Anyone who does knows the issues.

LMAO…I’ve pointed you to the graphs you’ve ignored them.

I’m not interested in your baiting I’m interested in you misrepresenting the post pandemic surge to falsely claim record immigration.

“Federal government figures show the NOM for the 12 months to 31 December 2024 was 341,000 people. That’s down 37% compared to the NOM’s peak, of 538,000, in the 2022-23 year.

That record number, covering the period when Labor took office in May 2022, came after the former Coalition “stomped on the immigration accelerator” after the closure of Australia’s international borders during the Covid pandemic, Rizvi said, in a bid to make up shortfalls.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/sep/01/anti-immigration-protesters-say-australias-migration-is-at-record-highs-but-the-figures-tell-a-different-story

Penfold failed proportions again, with a tinge of racism by isolating a single group which happens to be the largest today, in the same way the then largest groups from other countries were opposed in the past. His comments are as rubbish as such comments have ever been.

All immigrants are likely to say they are happy with the government that opened the door.

This is labor using the indian community for something thats incredibly obvious. If they dont like it, it proves indians vote labor.

A complete load of nonsense.

Australians don’t vote in racial blocks, this is culture wars garbage that is meaningless in Australia to everyone other than those not smart enough to see through it.

What Labor will be happy about is that instead of being under scrutiny as all governments should be the Liberal Party are busily shooting themselves in both feet…again.

Of course Ethnic groups vote in blocks that suit their preference to bring all their extended families here. Labor know this an play on this. This is why immigration is still well above pre pandemic levels. Labour is on a mission to see everyone is homeless.

Most labourers seem to want a home. Did you mean to refer to Labor? Explain your latest weird conspiracy.

Claiming without evidence that there is near-uniform behaviour among groups which you identify by ethnicity is attributing general characteristics to race, commonly known as racism.

@Axon yes it is racism, no they will not admit that yet. We’re getting closer though. With each debunked argument, the racists get closer to saying “well I just don’t like the look of them”.

@Cent8e Le7t based on what evidence? And show me the plan from Labor to do this? How could the keep such a plan secret?

Putting aside there’s no evidence any migrant communities of significant size vote in blocks, do you think even if a Labor minister wanted to do this they could push a button and make it happen? Without anyone finding out? Of course not, national governments are by necessity vast and complex bureaucracies.

People should have the critical thinking skills to see through this conspiratorial nonsense.

Andrew Bacic6:55 am 09 Sep 25

I’m not sure why there are three commentators suggesting others a racist, for correctly asserting in this context, that a particular group tend to vote a particular way?
Here is link below to just one, of several, pieces of research available on the matter.

https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2022/05/indo-australian-voters-and-the-2022-general-election?lang=en

Perhaps provide counter evidence instead of condescension and name calling.

Besides the complete lack of credible proof, the othering of certain people, the cherry picking of data, the representation of one election in which ….*checks notes* Labor won in a landslide…IDK Andrew.

Andrew Bacic10:21 am 09 Sep 25

Again Seano, and to my point I’m not sure why you would call someone racist for suggesting a particular group votes a certain way, particularly when there is evidence to support the claim (which you don’t accept, which is fine, but doesn’t mean its incorrect, I’m happy to look at counter material you have)?
You’re in all these comments name calling and bullying, but providing very little as far as substantiated counter claims. Pretty sad to be honest.

This only matters if there are deliberate steps being taken to prioritise would be Indian Migrants over other just as worthy migrants.

No one has provided any evidence to suggest anything of the like is happening.

Andrew Bacic11:12 am 09 Sep 25

Fair point JS9;
ABS stats indicate the number of Australians born in India is near 1 million people, nearly three times the number since 2010.
Australia does have bilateral agreements with India which preferences Indian migration, like the MATES program (not casting judgement on the programs, just noting they do exist, which would indicate preference although not prioritising).
Based on the volume, preferences, and our two governments engagement on migration, I don’t think its an unreasonable discussion to be had, and certainly not a racist one as others have claimed.

@Andrew “Again Seano, and to my point I’m not sure why you would call someone racist for suggesting a particular group votes a certain way,”

Who did I call racist buddy?

I did point out that if you’re marching behind actual Nazis who are chanting racist slogans you can’t divorce yourself from that because you’re supposedly there for other reasons.

The rest of your comment is tediously irrelevant, so you’ll fit right in here.

Andrew Bacic2:13 pm 09 Sep 25

Sorry Sean, I used ‘you’ in the other party sense, not you specifically, I should’ve used more precise language there.
Yes its tedious and irrelevant- yet you respond, and respond without any substance…. yet again. Just condescension in attempt to bully those with opposing views.

Andrew it may surprise you to know but I’m not particular interested in bad faith opinions about my arguments, especially as you’ve put forward no sensible arguments of your own…well not ones I haven’t easily shot down champ.

There is no voting bloc because there is not evidence to back Price’s dog whistling…perhaps time to contemplate your motivations here.

Andrew Bacic, no-one that I noticed claimed that saying a group could be identified by some [irrelevant] characteristic was racist, but rather that Cent-etc asserted a behavioural rationale which leaned on such tropes (to the extent one can make sense of their post).

Pretty much throughout our history migrants have tended to vote left rather than right, at least in the early generations of such migrants. I remember exactly those “debates” in the 1970s, or you could look equally at the fact that people of Chinese descent appear to have favoured the ALP at the last election, and all elections between.

To identify Indians alone in this context, as you did, is to pick that irrelevant factor to impugn a group from your political perspective. That is a racist behaviour.

Andrew Bacic3:58 pm 09 Sep 25

The only argument I made is the Indian migrants tend to vote labor, based on evidence I provided? Not sure about the rest of the waffle your going on about?
But you win, you’ve certainly shown me that my assertion about the tendencies of the Indian Australian voting cohort are wrong, and they certainly are NOT preferencing Labor. You shot me down with your witty ‘champ’ and ‘buddy’ condescension.
Kudos to you sir! I can admit when I’ve been bested!

Andrew Bacic4:26 pm 09 Sep 25

Axon, one of the comments literally said- ‘yes that is racist.’
Now you are accusing me of racist behaviour, for singling out Indians, in a comment section on an article about Indian migrants and their voting habits? Racist because I provided links to surveys completed by those of Indian heritage? pretty low bar, but okay.
Thanks for the anecdotes you provided, be careful though, other commentators don’t appreciate those.

Absolute numbers mean little without context however Andrew.

That there is three times the number since 2010 could actually mean they are under-represented compared to changes seen for people from other countries. Especially given India has one of the highest populations on earth – meaning there is a bigger pool of potential migrants compared to other places. And that’s all before getting to the actual subset of people who have progressed to permanency in this country – which is where the real target of whining is coming from some quarters.

The MATES program is a good example of the complexity here. It does preference Indian people – but for temporary visas for 2 years only, with no associated pathway towards permanent migration associated. So that isn’t really evidence at all to support assertions of preference being given in regards to permanent migration – especially given we have similar other programs with other countries or regions too – PALM scheme for the Pacific for instance, wide holiday working visas etc.

Of course there is a positive relationship around migration between the two countries existing – but equally we have that with umpteen other countries as well.

The existence of all that really doesn’t, at this point in time, provide any evidence that Indians are effectively being given a magic ‘tick this box if you are Indian’ go forward three spaces chance card on the Australian Monopoly Migration Game that some might want to claim.

There is plenty of interesting data and info in the ABS release however. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release

Yes Indian migration (in total terms – i.e including both permanent and temporary) is higher, but the peak in 2023 is really broadly from a trend perspective in line with where it probably would have been without the covid blip (Graph 2.1). It had also grown strongly under the previous coalition government between 2015 and 2019. ABS notes it has been driven by increased Indian student numbers to Australia, but I haven’t drilled down any further to see permanent vs temporary.

Even then you still need to compare that with other migrant sources to see if there is actually any resemblance of a statistically significant difference.

My gut feel is there probably isn’t.

Andrew Bacic5:26 pm 09 Sep 25

Fair points JS9, I do however believe pathways are provided for permanent migration, initially through Student Visas, via provisions in AI-ECTA, to encourage permanent settlement (MATES to AI-ECTA provisions). These pathways can be interpreted as preferential, particularly in prioritised professions as determined by the Gov.

My comment in relation to the numbers was more of a comment in relation to Australia’s population (not a comment on whether its positive or negative); 1,mil in 28,mil, roughly 3.3%. Second now only to Chinese migrants, a massive increase since 2010 relative to Australia’s population. Influence of this group has increased dramatically (from roughly 1.5% of pop. in 2010)

I attempted in my commentary, not to imply judgement, but rather to highlight the importance of a cohort that size to the Aus. political landscape. I don’t think either party is unaware of the significance. Voting trends in sub groups exist. To discuss them is not racist.

Now that I’ve got the obligatory “you might be racist” out of the way. Lets take a look at some other anecdotal data. Who is Jacob Vadakkedathu? What are his ethnic and migratory backgrounds and what is his political affiliation? Who is Amardeep Singh and what is his background and political affiliation? Sure it might be cherry picking, but it shows Indians are not so easy to group one way or the other. How many Indian migrants are you friends with or speak to about politics? I think you would find as many differing views as you do in our political landscape or here on riotact. People are individuals not bound by race. Targeting them for their race is racist. Get it?

Andrew Bacic11:16 am 10 Sep 25

Sooo, just to clarify you would like anecdotal evidence presented @That Guy? If I told you I have 10 Indian friends who all vote Labour, you would accept that? That’s the argument? Happy for the link to the survey I’ve provided be debunked, but you’ve provided the name of one individual in attempt to make a point against it?
All the rest is projection.

Show me how that survey was conducted and how the results are not also anecdotal data. Like I said, if we’re going to make the argument based on anecdotes, cherry picking and assumptions based on correlating “data”. That is my response using the same.
As for your hypothetical, it is totally plausible that all your indian friends have the same political leaning but it is then racist to extrapolate that to mean most or all indians. Saying my group of friends are diverse and therefore others of the same ethnicity are probably also diverse doesn’t have the same racist stink to it. Mine is also based on lived experience. Yours is based on hypothetical presumption. The notion that voting trends in sub groups exists may not be racist but when you make it about race and negate other factors, it is.

“Show me how that survey was conducted and how the results are not also anecdotal data.”
I pointed out the same thing but for some reason the comment got spiked.

He keeps trying to present polls as proof, and online small online polls at that.

Polls are like modelling that as George Box described it “All modelling is wrong by some modelling is useful”, some polls are useful but they’re in no way a proof of anything they’re notorious for being wrong and online polls particularly so.

Meanwhile, in the real world the LNP are the usual their usual clown shoes selves over

….sorry browser issue as I was pointing out that Jane Hulme who made silly comments about Chinese Australians before the election that cost them LNP politically has walked away from Price’s comments, Joyce has said Price should move on from this nonsense and even Littleproud not known for standing up for the right thing to do has called on Price to apologise…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acPnFZoN1is

You’d think the very online posters here would read the daily talking points and move on. There was no there there in Price’s original comments, they were always nonsensical and offensive.

Andrew Bacic2:14 pm 10 Sep 25

What? You do understand that’s how polls work right? You canvas a sample group, then extrapolate the results? When a poll is taken about, for instance government satisfaction, not every person in Australia is asked their opinion. A sample group is asked, the results inform the data-driven estimate.
They certainly are not he same! You telling me about your friendship group, and the results of a survey designed to measure opinions and provide a statistical result, aren’t even in the same galaxy! What on Earth are you talking about!
How can it possibly be racist if the sample group is Indian Migrants? What result would you expect to see for it not to be racist?
You’ll also have to give me a definition of polls that describes the results as anecdotal. I’ve never heard that definition before.
If you have issue with the methods or results of the poll I gave a link to, take it up with the people at Carnegie Endowment; tell them you think the results of their poll are anecdotal and racist.
Also, what factors have been negated in this conversation, about Indian migrant voting habits? You seem absolutely desperate to find some racism here.

Andrew Bacic2:23 pm 10 Sep 25

Just to clarify, I couldn’t find any other polls on the matter except the two I’ve offered. I’m not sure what else could be used to inform our opinions of the voting habits of this group. If there are others out there, lets look at them!
Polls are not anecdotal! Look up the definition of anecdotal! One of its similes is ‘unscientific’! A poll has a scientific method!

Wow dude you really need to take a breath and think. A poll is sample but it is NOT….and bear with me here PROOF.

Why is that? Because polls, especially small, online, self selecting ones are notorious for being wrong. Even bigger more robust polls get wrong results, we only need to look at the 2016 US Election to see that.

You cannot in good conscience or any sort of rationality suggest that two small self selecting online polls based ONE election are proof of anything. It’s beyond bizarre that you seem to believe this to be the case.

Based on your “logic” a bookies would not be able to accept bets on elections because if we have a small, online, self-selecting poll we already know the result. Think it through champion.

Also you made a big deal of cherry picking arguments, although I tend to thinking of it more as focusing on the core nonsense whilst ignoring the rest of your nonsense but a quick google search reveals the first definition of “anecdote” is “not necessarily true or reliable”.

Even most of the LNP have realised Price’s comments are nonsensical and offensive, maybe time to get on board buddy.

Andrew Bacic2:53 pm 10 Sep 25

Sean, how should I move on, should I admit that I’m racist because the only polls, survey’s, evidence (whatever we should call it) I could find, show a propensity of this group toward Labor? Okay- I’m racist because that’s all the information I believe to be available (or that I could find). I’m genuinely stunned by this conversation and don’t understand how possibly, these survey results could be racist. Is it racist to vote Labor? Is it racist to suggest most Indian migrants voted Labor in the last election, based on a couple of small sample size polls? I accept the issues you’ve raised about polls and sample size, that’s fair enough. I guess Ill continue to be a racist until I admit the majority of Indians canvassed in the polls I’ve seen don’t vote for Labor.

Look I don’t have the time to fully flesh this out.
-Polling a particular group to try and gauge demographics is not inherently racist. How those polls are then used can be.

Don’t waste your breath Andrew. It could be raining outside and seano would demand irrefutable proof that the ground is wet.

Sorry my comment accidentally posted before I finished.
-polls aren’t racist, how they are used after can be.
– my point about friends is to say my lived experience also denies this assumption.
-someone saying “I asked 1000000000 people and they mostly, kinda all said…” is literally an anecdote.
– you hold the “scientific” values of polls so dearly. Lets look at a poll that targeted LITERALLY every Australian, the federal election. Labor won. So by that logic, Australians are all left wing losers who love Albo. Moreover, to say Indians predominantly vote labor based on the last election is true, so did every other demographic.
– Now lets say, even though Price has said she was wrong, that you are correct. Now what? What does it mean? What is the “solution” to Indians vote labor?

Andrew Bacic3:11 pm 10 Sep 25

Sean just to clarify, my response was to That Guy who conflated poll results with anecdotes. I agree with the definition you gave.

Also, the polls I gave were over 2 elections (one in 2022 and one in 2025).

I haven’t argued that Price’s comments aren’t nonsensical and offensive, so no worries on that point. I have said that based on what information I could find, the group in question tends to vote a certain way.

I do however believe it to be completely rational to form an opinion based on information available, in this case polls. Again, I accept your comments in relation to said polls, however in the absence of other polling data I’m going to stick with the two I’ve found and formulate opinion based on those. Still open to any other polls that might be out there.

Question for you, how did you formulate your opinion that this group doesn’t preference Labor? Genuine question.

@Andrew no one has accused you of being racist for pointing out that Price’s intention is copy American dog whistling on this entirely made up notion that Indian migrants are being brought to Australia to vote for Labor.

It appears your comment is a bad faith acknowledgement that your whole line or argument is a nonsense.

“I haven’t argued that Price’s comments aren’t nonsensical and offensive”….you have by definition in defence of Penfold’s ludicrous arguments by posting spurious evidence to suggest there is truth Price’s comments, there is not which she herself has now acknowledged.

Not to mention your personally directed and equally wrong comments.

“Question for you, how did you formulate your opinion that this group doesn’t preference Labor? Genuine question.”

I haven’t made this claim. Genuine answer.

Um Penfold please point to where my arguments are wrong. We both know you won’t be cause you can’t. lol

Andrew Bacic3:32 pm 10 Sep 25

@ that guy
– yes everything can be used for racist deeds. Great observation.
– okay, no issue here, I guess?
– I cant argue with you about anecdotes and polls, its completely illogical and giving me a head ache.
– No one ever claimed ‘all Indians’ another incorrect assertion, well done. But you’ve managed to show something interesting about yourself in your attempt to mock my valuing of the Scientific Method.
– If I am correct about my interpretation of polls? Now nothing? This is an anti-truth argument, I’ve heard it before. The suggestion topics shouldn’t be discussed because they can be used for nefarious purposes is not a new one. They can also be used for positive ones.

Andrew Bacic3:44 pm 10 Sep 25

@seano
So, just to clarify, I’m wrong (you’ve taken issue with the polls I’ve provided), but you don’t believe they swing Liberal?

Ive only ever defended the claim- That Indian migrants tend to vote Labor, based on the evidence available.

Genuinely, where do you think they swing?

Andrew:
“No one ever claimed ‘all Indians’ another incorrect assertion, well done.”

Also Andrew elsewhere:
“It seems its an accurate assertion that most migrants from India vote labor,”

It’s not an accurate assertion, and whilst “most” is not “all” it’s still not a reasonable line of argument. Especially based on some flimsy polling and as I keep pointing out to you and you keep ignoring from ONE election.

If you value you the scientific method you’d know you need to much more robust data than a few small, self-selecting, online polls to make any claim with the word “All” in it or even “most”.

” topics shouldn’t be discussed because they can be used for nefarious purposes is not a new one”…bad arguments in defence of the bad arguments of noted very online culture warriors….let alone moving from snippy (which we’re all guilty of) to full on personal attacks…that cross you’re bearing must be quite weighty.

As I’ve pointed out to you before (and again this has been ignored) even Price has admitted she was wrong, although hasn’t apologised in typical fashion.

“but you don’t believe they swing Liberal?”…I don’t believe you can say any racial group swings one way or another. Especially not based on some flimsy polling from ONE election. It’s a nonsense argument, that does not hold water or apply to the Australian political system.

“Ive only ever defended the claim- That Indian migrants tend to vote Labor, based on the evidence available.”

Sigh. You don’t have evidence to prove that. Price and the LNP have largely admitted this, why can’t you?

“Genuinely, where do you think they swing?”

I genuinely don’t care. Every vote is up for grabs at the next election.

Of course it’s not hard to surmise that people from migrant backgrounds might be concerned about the Trumpist element of the LNP given what’s unfolding in America right now but they were hardly alone. Even with the decline of the two party system and rise of independents and minor parties it was a landslide result.

Andrew Bacic4:29 pm 10 Sep 25

@seano, just to clarify, 2 polls from two different elections. I’m not sure why you continue to lie about that, but here are the links again. You have issue with them, that’s fine, I have nothing else to offer as far as polling data.

https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2022/05/indo-australian-voters-and-the-2022-general-election?lang=en

https://www.indianlink.com.au/indian-link-federal-election-survey-2025/

Yes, most is the correct term based in what information I’ve seen. Suggesting that I inferred ‘all’ is incredibly bad faith.

Yes, I do value the scientific method and data collection, which is why I have repeatedly asked for opposing information to be provided. Is this a folly on my part? Again you’ve used the word ‘all’ which I never claimed. Most, is the correct word in this context.

The bad argument comment is subjective. Claims of racism aren’t as subjective, and Ill continue to call them out. Genuinely sorry if I offended you, I thought you were open to banter, Ill refrain from personal attacks.

Fine Price has admitted she is wrong, great I’m not arguing that she has done that. I don’t believe the claim about Indian migrant voting preferences is incorrect still.

“We both know you won’t be cause you can’t.” That old chestnut again.

Your arguments are generally wrong upon the selection of the “Submit” function.

For example “It’s not an accurate assertion”.

Andrew Bacic5:28 pm 10 Sep 25

Here are two articles from a a media platform manged by the Indian Diaspora. One references poll results conducted by Redbridge where 85% of respondents favoured Labor. I cant find that poll, however, Redbridge are pretty well know pollsters.

The other references the same source material is me. Cant be that bad I guess.

Both agree with me, about voting preferences. I’m really struggling to find any information to contradict the claim, that has Indian migrants not swinging towards Labor. I could be wrong though.

https://www.theindiansun.com.au/2025/05/20/they-just-dont-like-people-like-me-how-indian-australians-are-redefining-the-political-centre/

https://www.theindiansun.com.au/2025/08/18/why-85-of-indian-australians-voted-labor/

Andrew Bacic5:31 pm 10 Sep 25

Seano, You’re not going to convince me, and I’m not going to convince you, not much merit in continuing this.

Have a good one!

Thanks for once again proving the point that you have no argument Penfold and you’re clearly not happy about. lol

“@seano, just to clarify, 2 polls from two different elections. I’m not sure why you continue to lie about that,”

But it hardly moves the needle at all. Two minor polls not PROOF of anything especially not when the majority of Australians preferenced Labor.

“Yes, most is the correct term based in what information I’ve seen. Suggesting that I inferred ‘all’ is incredibly bad faith.”

You can’t divorce yourself from the arguments you were defending, sorry it doesn’t work that way. To make categorical statements even of level of “most” you need actual proof.

“Yes, I do value the scientific method and data collection, which is why I have repeatedly asked for opposing information to be provided. Is this a folly on my part?”

Yes, I don’t have to disprove something you haven’t proven.

“The bad argument comment is subjective.” It’s not, there’s no credible proof that Indian Australians vote in a bloc or won’t vote for the LNP at the next election, although Price’s clear attempts to ostracise votes along racial lines are probably not helping.

” Claims of racism aren’t as subjective, and Ill continue to call them out. ” no one has called you a racist, that doesn’t mean there’s not racism in this whole imported culture wars nonsense.

“Genuinely sorry if I offended you, I thought you were open to banter, Ill refrain from personal attacks.”….I’m not offended, but I’m happy to point out hypocrisy.

“Fine Price has admitted she is wrong, great I’m not arguing that she has done that. I don’t believe the claim about Indian migrant voting preferences is incorrect still.”

No one sensible is now supporting this claim, not even Price. But you do you.

Andrew, I never said “all indians” in that comment, I said all Australians which you interpret to mean also mean all indians. Also it is hyperbole and exageration. In case you hadn’t realised, I’m being “that guy”. Sometimes it is easier to hold up an opposing mirror until the opponent says you’re dumb than to convince them of anything. We are all stubborn on this site. Some choose to LARP as an overbrined gherkin, I choose to be that guy.
I can see that you are not a dog whistled racist but rather a pedant. I apologise. That science part really got ya haha.

Straight from American right wing culture wars “think” spaces….through Jacinta’s “mind” to wreaking more damage on the Liberal Party.

IDK why the far right are not smart enough to get that Australia is not American and importing their culture wars nonsense isn’t the clever tactic they seem to believe it is….but here we are.

Andrew Bacic6:42 am 09 Sep 25

It seems its an accurate assertion that most migrants from India vote labor, and they do represent a massive cohort of new Australians. Completely understandable why commentators would view this as Demographic Engineering, rather than culture wars nonsense.
Yet, you are all over those comments denigrating others, calling them names, telling them its far right rubbish.
Here’s a link to some research that supports the claims. Perhaps provide links to support your own assertions before dismissing others valid opinions.

https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2022/05/indo-australian-voters-and-the-2022-general-election?lang=en

PS. Yougov panels are self selecting so you know….lools.

” Demographic Engineering”…laughable. You’ve got some anecdotes and a YouGov poll and that’s it.

It doesn’t equate to a voting bloc, certainly not a coordinated voting bloc, it doesn’t equate at all to an orchestrated campaign, it’s one election, it’s nonsensical to suggest that this phantom voting bloc some how influenced the election with it taking years to get to the point of being allowed to vote let allow the apparent complete lack of understanding of how our representative democracy works and it’s also a democracy anyway and people are entitled to vote how they like.

An none of the Price apologists have considered that even if there was kernel of truth to this nonsense (there really isn’t) is there a reason why migrants might not feel welcome in the Liberal party.

Andrew Bacic10:08 am 09 Sep 25

I notice this is tactic of yours, you insert assertions into discussions no one presented to you; I never said voting block, or orchestrated, or campaign. I never said it influenced the election either? I’m not sure how you determined I dont understand representative democracy based on my analysis of the comments made? What anecdotes are you referring to that I have? Did you mistakenly use this word?
I claimed, with evidence (albeit evidence you take issue with), that a large cohort of migrants, vote a certain way, which is why I dont think it is unreasonable for people to conclude there may be Demographic Engineering taking place (also I’m not sure why you’ve taken issue with my use of this term, I believe it to be the correct use?).
You’ve provided misrepresentations, strawmen, and 0 evidence to counter.
These Gotcha tactics are pretty weak and childish, present a worthy argument to refute the claim or show some humility and accept you may have let your emotions get in the way of the discussion at hand.

Capital Retro11:03 am 09 Sep 25

That’s Seano’s raison d’être, Andrew.

He will now call you a racist or say “all of the above is untrue”.

It’s also a simple fact that Indian migration has jumped 40% as a % of total migration in the past three years.

Statements about no “kernels of truth” are simply outright lies.

See current ABS statistics. Seano obviously can’t. 🙄

Tedious Andrew.

You chip in with an irrelevant support for the usual apologists for the sort of attention seeking attention dog whistling that has become Price’s standard, it’s hard to take you at all seriously.

You can claim with poor evidence all you like, YouGov polls are self selecting, anecdotes even more so. There’s no evidence here of bloc voting, no evidence here of an orchestrated campaign, no evidence that even if these absolute nonsenses were true that they had any impact on the election.

You’ve yet to present a “worthy argument”, note whinging doesn’t count.

@Capital ..losing arguments seems to be your “raison d’être”…that’s why we now get these silly off topic snipes instead.

@Penfold at what point do you stop misrepresenting the post pandemic surge?

‘After Covid restrictions eased in 2021 and 2022, the NOM soared. It hit 342,000 in the year to September 2022, then 433,000 in the year to December 2022.

“We know the trend is sharply downwards [from the peak],” Gamlen said. “We had a surge of arrivals after the pandemic to catch up when migration went in negative territory, but the arrivals catchup wasn’t big enough to make up for the shortfall.”‘

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/sep/01/anti-immigration-protesters-say-australias-migration-is-at-record-highs-but-the-figures-tell-a-different-story

Andrew Bacic2:00 pm 09 Sep 25

Sorry again, I have to ask; what anecdotes? Are you sure you know what that means?
Again you’re strawmaning; Never did I mention bloc voting or orchestrated campaigns, nor did I mention election results, or support of anyone in particular?
Yes I ‘chip in’ on a public forum, is that not what these spaces are for? What an insipid comment.
You don’t like the methods of the research I provided, fine, but that doesn’t make the results invalid because you use buzz phrases like ‘dog whistling’- provide counter evidence in support of your assertion. Your responses could just be boiled down to- ‘no its not’ which would actually be preferably, so the rest of us wouldn’t be exposed to your childish, verbose retorts.
Tedious- yet you continue to respond? Are you actually a 13 year old?

Andrew Bacic3:00 pm 09 Sep 25

Seano, here’s a link to another survey, conducted by members of the community themselves.

https://www.indianlink.com.au/indian-link-federal-election-survey-2025/

No doubt you’ll dismiss this as well, without actually offering any evidence of your own.

Irrelevant, I believe, is commentary provided by simpletons who are ideologically possessed, who will refute any and all evidence presented to them, if it doesn’t fit their pre-conceived notions.

Again, happy to look at any contrary evidence you may have.

“Seano, here’s a link to another survey…” oh a link survey to small online group based on intentions to vote in ONE election….lmao….your idea of what constitutes “evidence” is amusing at least.

“In an Indian Link survey to gauge voting intentions within the Indian community in Australia, the Australian Labor Party (ALP) under its leader Anthony Albanese has emerged as the clear frontrunner, receiving majority of support.

Standing out clearly as a liability for Coalition leader Peter Dutton, was the election of Donald Trump in the United States — and the perceived ideological alignment between the Republican Party and Australia’s Liberal-National Coalition.”

And clearly you didn’t read it because even though the ALP won this small online survey, there was a clear reason why they won…the ideological link to Trumpism was a very real concern…now who promoted that champion….I’ll give you three guesses and the first to are Dutton and Price…I’m sure you’ll get there eventually.

Meanwhile, this is one small group, no evidence of a “bloc” vote, just the opinions of people concerned about the Trumpism in the Liberal Party…along with apparently *checks notes*…a significant portion of the Australian electorate.

I don’t need “contrary evidence” because the evidence you’ve presented does not prove a voting bloc, or an orchestrated campaign…they don’t even prove that the LNP can’t win the votes of those surveyed at the next election.

Of course the Liberal Party and the very online intelligentsia amongst their boosters are probably not helping assuage fears about the Trumpist element within the LNP if they are genuine about winning votes rather than whinging and dog whistling.

But that again is not evidence of a voting bloc or any orchestrated campaign to use migrants from anywhere to keep the LNP out of government it’s just proof that they’re all very bad at Australian politics.

“Sorry again, I have to ask; what anecdotes? Are you sure you know what that means?
Again you’re strawmaning”….just because you haven’t read all the arguments doesn’t mean I’m strawman-ing.

There rest of your comment is a tedious whinge…if you chip into defend bad arguments with bad arguments you own all the bad arguments….much in the same way those people who still marched on the weekend behind actual Nazis chanting racist slogans can’t divorce themself from that.

“Are you actually a 13 year old?”. If I was then you’d be losing to a 13 year old, but luckily for you I’m not.

Andrew Bacic, past elections have shown that better educated and younger people tend to vote for the ALP. Immigrants are usually younger and better educated than averages of their home populace, or ours.

There is no need for “contrary evidence” per se. You are simply incapable of seeing the problems with the material in front of you.

Irrelevant, I believe, is commentary provided by simpletons who are ideologically possessed, who will refute any and all evidence presented to them, if it doesn’t fit their pre-conceived notions.

Andrew when they launch the “we’re smarter” line it does make for a good laugh.

Andrew Bacic4:12 pm 09 Sep 25

Axon, I’m sorry I provided links to several surveys, with several age groups participating?
I’m not sure what relevance your comment has.? The results of survey respondents across all ages, as a whole, preferenced Labor?
I’ve made no comment on why, or how this result was reached, yet several commentators are telling me, my conclusion; that this group has preferenced labor is wrong? I’m just providing the results of the survey?
Yes, you will have to provide evidence per se, refuting the survey results. Otherwise, your giving your unfounded opinion. Perhaps, reassess my comment on ideological possession and its relevance.

Andrew Bacic5:32 pm 09 Sep 25

@Penfold, this is truly bizarre. The hubris is outrageous, particularly from the chap who desperately tried to tell me about voting trends of younger people, as if it had some relevance to the information presented? How incredibly embarrassing.

“The results of survey respondents across all ages, as a whole, preferenced Labor?” some small online surveys for ONE election….there’s a seriously low bar for evidence at your house.

Andrew, online surveys neither prove a voting bloc, nor an orchestrated campaign. Nor does it even remotely make sense that any government could somehow import a specific group of people and in some way impact an election featuring preferential voting, high turnout and independent administration. The whole premise is puerile nonsense.

In the article you linked but clearly did not read one surveyed group identified Trumpism in the Liberal Party as a concern, how is that anything other than a valid reason for voting intentions when millions of Australians clearly agreed?

There’s no voting bloc here what there is is bad politics by the Liberal Party in allowing Price and others to confirm the fears of many Australians.

Andrew Bacic8:15 am 10 Sep 25

Seano, you’re really struggling here Big Fella, I’m going to simplify it for you as much as I can, champion;
2 surveys presented to you, by two different groups, at two different times indicated Indian voters prefrerenced Labor. Nothing else. No Trump, no voting block, no mention of reasons why, no other implication was made.
Research suggests, Indian migrants tend to vote Labor. That is all I said cobber.
I assume your contention is that the group tend to vote Liberal or other, fine provide the evidence.
Or don’t, whatever, keep on going with your shrieking incoherent ramblings about marches and Trump and NSN and whatever else you’re emotional about. All the same to me Boss.

Speaking as half American (my good side is American) I can see your point, however I grew up surrounded by Aussie Ocka’ Bogans who grew up to be the kind of people you are referring to. I have noticed that most Australians subconsciously realise how boring our country is, they see what’s happening in the US and are inspired to copy that because it’s interesting and ads excitement to their lives.

Andrew ol mate, I’ll simplify it further for you champion….even Price admitted she was wrong….ooops.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-09-03/coalition-calls-for-lower-migration/105729310

“Nothing else. No Trump, no voting block, no mention of reasons why, no other implication was made.”

I literally quoted the article you linked buddy, you’re embarrassing yourself.

“Research suggests, Indian migrants tend to vote Labor. “….no it doesn’t. I can only conclude you don’t remotely understand what research is. What you have is some online polling which is already problematic for reasons that are apparently beyond you, and that polling references small sample sizes based on ONE election.

The whole premise that you’re failing to defend here cobber doesn’t stand up, Price even admitted it doesn’t stand up. You don’t have poof of a voting bloc, you don’t have an orchestrated campaign by Labor, it doesn’t even remotely make sense given how long it takes to go from immigrating to naturalisation and the right to vote.

The only incoherence here is in your failed arguments, skipper.

@Karl I agree that there isn’t American idea dumb enough that there won’t be someone in Australia who will try to import it. But I will point out most imported American culture wars nonsense fails here.

Andrew Bacic11:04 am 10 Sep 25

Captain Sean, yes you win, I unreservedly apologise. I have embarrassed myself and I stand humbled at the alter of your great debate skills.
You definitely are correct. You’re responses are concise and factual. You respond to specific arguments I make. You provide compelling evidence. You use words correctly, like your use of anecdote in relation to my comments. You don’t use pieces of information from articles to make a point, whilst illegitimating other parts of the same article. You don’t project. You don’t condemn by association. You definitely don’t make assumptions about mine, or, the opinions of others and how they are derived.
I know when to bow out, well done sir.

I like the way you’ve made this comment as if it’s not a capitulation when it is because your arguments don’t stand up. I thought the critique of my use of words whilst using the incorrect “You’re” was a nice touch. lol

Andrew Bacic1:39 pm 10 Sep 25

Haha, in all fairness, that is a funny pickup there, I have to pay that one!

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