The Conder window massacre

Tooks said :

If I am an unskilled and inexperienced ballerina, then I am a bad ballerina.

I don’t care what anyone says. I think you’re a wonderful ballerina.

Valleyboy……all I said was I think you should use your right brain a bit more. Just a suggestion. Hardly a criticism. Sorry you took it so personally……that might just be a sign of emotion. Way to go!

Violet68 said :

Next……
Yep, you’re right. Obviously, I should use the right-hand side of my brain more. You’ve no idea what a handicap it is living with a brain where the logical, critically-thinking left-hand side has the upper hand.

I wouldn’t be so quick to put down people who don’t think as “critically” as you. Try living on the wildside, or would it be too painful to pry open that right side just a wee bit?

But you were quite happy to criticise me first for not being right-brained enough for you.

What a colossal cheek. Pot, kettle, black.

Thanks for playing, Violet. You’ve been most entertaining. Thank you, linesmen; thank you, ballboys.

Tooks said :

Violet68 said :

Your reading comprehension is very poor, isn’t it? You said being unskilled and inexperienced doesn’t make you a bad parent. Of course it does! It may not be a parent’s fault they are unskilled and inexperienced, but the result of being unskilled and inexperienced at something, means you are bad at it.

If I am an unskilled and inexperienced driver, then I am a bad driver.
If I am an unskilled and inexperienced footballer, then I am a bad footballer.
If I am an unskilled and inexperienced ballerina, then I am a bad ballerina.

Do you get the message yet? That doesn’t mean you can’t learn these skills, gain experience and become good at something, but before that happens, you’re not going to be very good, are you?

Not so much of a reading and comprehension problem. More of a WTF problem. Tell me, how DO you gain the skills and experience to become good at something? Were you a first born child….or did you have the luxury of being second or even third born (by that time your parents would have been experts!). God forbid you were an only child!!! Your parents would have been REALLY bad at parenting (according to you). Wonder why middle children have issues then……if their parents have already had the chance to “get good” at parenting?

I know young first time parents and I know mature first time parents. Both groups have their strengths and weaknesses. I’ve also met people with natural abilities for sports, music and dance……same with parenting. I really don’t see your point. I do like the bit where you say “it may not be the parent’s fault” though 😉

Next……
Yep, you’re right. Obviously, I should use the right-hand side of my brain more. You’ve no idea what a handicap it is living with a brain where the logical, critically-thinking left-hand side has the upper hand.

I wouldn’t be so quick to put down people who don’t think as “critically” as you. Try living on the wildside, or would it be too painful to pry open that right side just a wee bit?

Violet68 said :

Valleyboy said :

Adopted into the Western context, “it takes a village” allows the villagers — otherwise known as “society” — to pick up some of the child-raising tab and to take some of the blame when the child turns out malevolent, but not, it seems, to pass criticism on how poorly their investment in the child has performed.

Are you seriously going to relate the meaning of an old African proverb to American politics and investment performances? I think you need to work on using the right side of your brain.

Having confirmed what I thought with some quick ‘Net research: the left-hand side of the brain is used for functions like language, logic and critical thinking, while the right-hand side of the brain deals with functions like emotions, intuition and creativity.

Yep, you’re right. Obviously, I should use the right-hand side of my brain more. You’ve no idea what a handicap it is living with a brain where the logical, critically-thinking left-hand side has the upper hand.

Violet68 said :

Tooks, are you serious?
Were you born with the innate skills to drive or did you have to read a book and have lessons to learn HOW to drive? Are you always well enough to drive? Ever had an accident? Ever break the road rules? Do you drive 24 hours per day, 7 days per week? If you had a disability, would you need modifications and support to be able to continue driving? None of these things would necessarily make you a bad driver, but may actually indicate your humanity. Driving is not a full time, lifetime job but parenting is. Fark, what are you expecting Stepford parents and children?

Your reading comprehension is very poor, isn’t it? You said being unskilled and inexperienced doesn’t make you a bad parent. Of course it does! It may not be a parent’s fault they are unskilled and inexperienced, but the result of being unskilled and inexperienced at something, means you are bad at it.

If I am an unskilled and inexperienced driver, then I am a bad driver.
If I am an unskilled and inexperienced footballer, then I am a bad footballer.
If I am an unskilled and inexperienced ballerina, then I am a bad ballerina.

Do you get the message yet? That doesn’t mean you can’t learn these skills, gain experience and become good at something, but before that happens, you’re not going to be very good, are you?

Tooks, are you serious?
Were you born with the innate skills to drive or did you have to read a book and have lessons to learn HOW to drive? Are you always well enough to drive? Ever had an accident? Ever break the road rules? Do you drive 24 hours per day, 7 days per week? If you had a disability, would you need modifications and support to be able to continue driving? None of these things would necessarily make you a bad driver, but may actually indicate your humanity. Driving is not a full time, lifetime job but parenting is. Fark, what are you expecting Stepford parents and children?

Some parents have to work. Some have to do it all on their own. Some are ill or have a disability. Some don’t have the skills or are inexperienced. Doesn’t necessarily mean they are bad parents or that their children are going to develop into anti social deviants.

What a load of crap. Of course it makes them bad parents. As a driver, if I don’t have the skills or experience, I am a bad driver. Same goes with parenting and pretty much anything else you can think of.

No need for personal attacks John Boy or offers to mentor/discipline my children Classified. Interesting how it becomes personal when a bit of collective responsibility is mentioned. Oh well, if anything goes wrong in your families….you will only have yourselves or your Mum’s to blame…..good luck with that 🙂

That’s what I’ve always thought, if I do something wrong, then it is my fault, I don’t go around blaming society.

I don’t go looking for a hand out, I don’t look for someone else to blame, I take responsibility for what I have done.

If you read what I have written, it says if something “goes” wrong in your families. I didn’t say if you “do” something wrong. There is a difference.
Why is it that when I object to a young child being publicly identified and labelled before it has even grown up, and suggest that the incident on this thread could be due to more than “bad parenting” that I am “going around blaming society?”.
I’m glad you can take responsibility for your own actions. Some people on RA would blame the failures of your Mother……..

johnboy said :

Classified said :

Obviously we wouldn’t take the children from parents for the occasional misdemeanor, but in cases where parents are consistently criminal and/or neglectful, and kids are demonstrably starting down the same road, removing the kids and putting them in a better environment would be well worth trying. For such kids, they’ll typically turn out criminals anyway, and this way they’ll have some better role models and be better cared for.

And now for the tricky bit… that better environment is?

It is tricky, but being difficult doesn’t make something the wrong thing to do.

If you have a parent or parents with numerous convictions for things like assault, theft, robbery, domestic violence, etc and who has made no attempts to fix their life and who is popping out kids, there is a serious need for the children to be removed. and who has known behavioural and/or drug problems, then I think there are serious grounds for considering the removal of the children, preferably at as young an age as possible. Too often it is about giving the parents more and more chances, which means giving the kids less and less of a chance.

Violet68 said :

Classified said :

Violet68 said :

Classified said :

johnboy said :

Classified said :

Obviously we wouldn’t take the children from parents for the occasional misdemeanor, but in cases where parents are consistently criminal and/or neglectful, and kids are demonstrably starting down the same road, removing the kids and putting them in a better environment would be well worth trying. For such kids, they’ll typically turn out criminals anyway, and this way they’ll have some better role models and be better cared for.

And now for the tricky bit… that better environment is?

Not an easy question, nor a cheap solution.

Here’s an idea……It takes a village to raise a child.

http://www.justpeace.org/village.htm

No problems. I’ll happily mentor and teach your children, provided you don’t try to get in my way when I discipline them.

If you read the article, you would see that it’s about developing a sense of community and wider supports for children and families because we don’t seem to have that extended network anymore.

No need for personal attacks John Boy or offers to mentor/discipline my children Classified. Interesting how it becomes personal when a bit of collective responsibility is mentioned. Oh well, if anything goes wrong in your families….you will only have yourselves or your Mum’s to blame…..good luck with that 🙂

That’s what I’ve always thought, if I do something wrong, then it is my fault, I don’t go around blaming society.

I don’t go looking for a hand out, I don’t look for someone else to blame, I take responsibility for what I have done.

Valleyboy said :

Adopted into the Western context, “it takes a village” allows the villagers — otherwise known as “society” — to pick up some of the child-raising tab and to take some of the blame when the child turns out malevolent, but not, it seems, to pass criticism on how poorly their investment in the child has performed.

Are you seriously going to relate the meaning of an old African proverb to American politics and investment performances? I think you need to work on using the right side of your brain.

2604 said :

Violet68 said :

Here’s an idea……It takes a village to raise a child.

http://www.justpeace.org/village.htm

An “idea” or a “cliche”?

I always thought the “it takes a village” line was a massive cop-out by parents who wanted to blame society for the way their kids turned out. What it “takes” is for parents to spend a lot of time with their children, and to behave in a way that sets a good example.

Some parents have to work. Some have to do it all on their own. Some are ill or have a disability. Some don’t have the skills or are inexperienced. Doesn’t necessarily mean they are bad parents or that their children are going to develop into anti social deviants. To quote Jethro “Not every child born into a bad family will become a criminal and not every child born into a good home will walk the straight and narrow”. What constitutes a “good” home may not always produce a well adjusted human being and being part of a “bad” family can develop resilience and may produce a young person determined to live a different way.

Extended support networks are known protective factors for children and young people. For example, positive and caring teachers, sports coaches, social and church groups, friends and neighbours. Children and young people learn different perspectives, skills and how to relate to others through MORE than their parents and home.

If any of you can fill me in on how a parent can control social factors, genetics, illness, financial status, learning disabilities etc etc while still meeting ALL of their child’s emotional, social and physical needs, please do let me know! IMO mother/parent blaming is a “cop out” by people who are too self interested to take on a bit of collective responsibility.

The originally African “it takes a village” line was adopted and popularised by Hillary Clinton in US domestic politics as a justification for increased federal spending on family-specific benefits and concessions there to buy votes from the “families” demographic (rather like John Howard’s middle-class welfare initiatives). In Australia, it indeed takes the village to provide baby bonus, paid parental leave, schools, medical programmes, and various family-specific benefits that one hears enumerated in federal Budget speeches and in election promises.

Adopted into the Western context, “it takes a village” allows the villagers — otherwise known as “society” — to pick up some of the child-raising tab and to take some of the blame when the child turns out malevolent, but not, it seems, to pass criticism on how poorly their investment in the child has performed.

Violet68 said :

Here’s an idea……It takes a village to raise a child.

http://www.justpeace.org/village.htm

An “idea” or a “cliche”?

I always thought the “it takes a village” line was a massive cop-out by parents who wanted to blame society for the way their kids turned out. What it “takes” is for parents to spend a lot of time with their children, and to behave in a way that sets a good example.

Classified said :

Violet68 said :

Classified said :

johnboy said :

Classified said :

Obviously we wouldn’t take the children from parents for the occasional misdemeanor, but in cases where parents are consistently criminal and/or neglectful, and kids are demonstrably starting down the same road, removing the kids and putting them in a better environment would be well worth trying. For such kids, they’ll typically turn out criminals anyway, and this way they’ll have some better role models and be better cared for.

And now for the tricky bit… that better environment is?

Not an easy question, nor a cheap solution.

Here’s an idea……It takes a village to raise a child.

http://www.justpeace.org/village.htm

No problems. I’ll happily mentor and teach your children, provided you don’t try to get in my way when I discipline them.

If you read the article, you would see that it’s about developing a sense of community and wider supports for children and families because we don’t seem to have that extended network anymore.

No need for personal attacks John Boy or offers to mentor/discipline my children Classified. Interesting how it becomes personal when a bit of collective responsibility is mentioned. Oh well, if anything goes wrong in your families….you will only have yourselves or your Mum’s to blame…..good luck with that 🙂

Violet68 said :

Classified said :

johnboy said :

Classified said :

Obviously we wouldn’t take the children from parents for the occasional misdemeanor, but in cases where parents are consistently criminal and/or neglectful, and kids are demonstrably starting down the same road, removing the kids and putting them in a better environment would be well worth trying. For such kids, they’ll typically turn out criminals anyway, and this way they’ll have some better role models and be better cared for.

And now for the tricky bit… that better environment is?

Not an easy question, nor a cheap solution.

Here’s an idea……It takes a village to raise a child.

http://www.justpeace.org/village.htm

No problems. I’ll happily mentor and teach your children, provided you don’t try to get in my way when I discipline them.

johnboy said :

Still trying to blame everyone else for your own failures Violet?

What failures are you accusing me of?

Still trying to blame everyone else for your own failures Violet?

Classified said :

johnboy said :

Classified said :

Obviously we wouldn’t take the children from parents for the occasional misdemeanor, but in cases where parents are consistently criminal and/or neglectful, and kids are demonstrably starting down the same road, removing the kids and putting them in a better environment would be well worth trying. For such kids, they’ll typically turn out criminals anyway, and this way they’ll have some better role models and be better cared for.

And now for the tricky bit… that better environment is?

Not an easy question, nor a cheap solution.

Here’s an idea……It takes a village to raise a child.

http://www.justpeace.org/village.htm

johnboy said :

Classified said :

Obviously we wouldn’t take the children from parents for the occasional misdemeanor, but in cases where parents are consistently criminal and/or neglectful, and kids are demonstrably starting down the same road, removing the kids and putting them in a better environment would be well worth trying. For such kids, they’ll typically turn out criminals anyway, and this way they’ll have some better role models and be better cared for.

And now for the tricky bit… that better environment is?

Not an easy question, nor a cheap solution.

Jethro said :

Violet68 said :

steveu said :

Agree Valleyboy. Take the kids away from their mothers, see if if it gives these kids some perspective as to how bad their lives obviously are, for them to act out on this pointless act of vandalism.

Yes, castrate these useless parents, better still take away their family tax benefits and housing! That will sort them out. This sort of behaviour couldn’t possibly be put down to a combination of societal factors, perhaps one of them being “an us against them” mentality…….

No factor is more influential in a child’s development than their home-life and parents. Not every child born into a bad family will become a criminal and not every child born into a good home will walk the straight and narrow. However, in general, children born into families where the parents are disrespectful law breakers are much more likely to turn out this way themselves. RiotACT favourite Camilla Krutsky is one such example… brought up by criminals, is now a criminal raising a very young child who in all likelihood will grow up to become a criminal. She is a good example of a parent who should have had her child removed from her at birth.

I’m all for removing young children from demonstrably bad parents. We have too much fear in Australia of the negative consequences of removing children from bad homes, but ignore the negative consequences of leaving them there.

Where would you propose we place these children? In inadequate accommodation, grouped together without heating or clean mattresses (as has recently occurred)? Would you place them with carers who do not love them but like the money they bring in? Would you have them shuffled from carer to carer until they don’t know who the hell to trust? The foster care system has also been responsible for raising young people with difficult behaviours.

How dare you publicly name and predict the future of a young child. No wonder some of these kids have attitudes…..when they are damned by people like you before they even have a chance to grow up!

Classified said :

Obviously we wouldn’t take the children from parents for the occasional misdemeanor, but in cases where parents are consistently criminal and/or neglectful, and kids are demonstrably starting down the same road, removing the kids and putting them in a better environment would be well worth trying. For such kids, they’ll typically turn out criminals anyway, and this way they’ll have some better role models and be better cared for.

And now for the tricky bit… that better environment is?

Jethro said :

I’m all for removing young children from demonstrably bad parents. We have too much fear in Australia of the negative consequences of removing children from bad homes, but ignore the negative consequences of leaving them there.

Obviously we wouldn’t take the children from parents for the occasional misdemeanor, but in cases where parents are consistently criminal and/or neglectful, and kids are demonstrably starting down the same road, removing the kids and putting them in a better environment would be well worth trying. For such kids, they’ll typically turn out criminals anyway, and this way they’ll have some better role models and be better cared for.

Violet68 said :

steveu said :

Agree Valleyboy. Take the kids away from their mothers, see if if it gives these kids some perspective as to how bad their lives obviously are, for them to act out on this pointless act of vandalism.

Yes, castrate these useless parents, better still take away their family tax benefits and housing! That will sort them out. This sort of behaviour couldn’t possibly be put down to a combination of societal factors, perhaps one of them being “an us against them” mentality…….

No factor is more influential in a child’s development than their home-life and parents. Not every child born into a bad family will become a criminal and not every child born into a good home will walk the straight and narrow. However, in general, children born into families where the parents are disrespectful law breakers are much more likely to turn out this way themselves. RiotACT favourite Camilla Krutsky is one such example… brought up by criminals, is now a criminal raising a very young child who in all likelihood will grow up to become a criminal. She is a good example of a parent who should have had her child removed from her at birth.

I’m all for removing young children from demonstrably bad parents. We have too much fear in Australia of the negative consequences of removing children from bad homes, but ignore the negative consequences of leaving them there.

Violet68 said :

steveu said :

Agree Valleyboy. Take the kids away from their mothers, see if if it gives these kids some perspective as to how bad their lives obviously are, for them to act out on this pointless act of vandalism.

Yes, castrate these useless parents, better still take away their family tax benefits and housing! That will sort them out. This sort of behaviour couldn’t possibly be put down to a combination of societal factors, perhaps one of them being “an us against them” mentality…….

No I think it is more of a, I’m young, I’m bored, this doesn’t hurt anyone….

steveu said :

Agree Valleyboy. Take the kids away from their mothers, see if if it gives these kids some perspective as to how bad their lives obviously are, for them to act out on this pointless act of vandalism.

Yes, castrate these useless parents, better still take away their family tax benefits and housing! That will sort them out. This sort of behaviour couldn’t possibly be put down to a combination of societal factors, perhaps one of them being “an us against them” mentality…….

Agree Valleyboy. Take the kids away from their mothers, see if if it gives these kids some perspective as to how bad their lives obviously are, for them to act out on this pointless act of vandalism.

It gives me a nice warm fuzzy feeling to think about how the households that these wastes-of-space infest are probably being subsidised by my taxes and those of the victims. In return for such assistance, what a great service the parents have done society by giving us these punks. Hopefully, Bimberi will beckon in their future soon enough.

Tooks said :

Fliponout said :

only in boganville would this happen…
maybe codor needs a police station … hmmmm

Yes, property damage only occurs in “codor”.

Is codor next to Mordor?

Fliponout said :

only in boganville would this happen…
maybe codor needs a police station … hmmmm

Well given the number of cop cars I see there at a particular hour in the AM…presumably serving warrants…You could be onto something there. May save on petrol. I mean there is enough demand to puit a Centrelink CSC there, so why not a cop shop?

Fliponout said :

only in boganville would this happen…
maybe codor needs a police station … hmmmm

Yes, property damage only occurs in “codor”.

Fliponout said :

only in boganville would this happen…
maybe codor needs a police station … hmmmm

No, it didn’t happen in Gungahlin. It happened in Conder.

only in boganville would this happen…
maybe codor needs a police station … hmmmm

Surely Maccas Conder has security cameras?

gentoopenguin said :

Sounds like some little punks got stanley knives from Santa this year…. let’s hope they get caught.

I was thinking a rock. Would take a damn long time with a Stanley knife. Haven’t these kids just learned to smash sh!t?

Or maybe the glazing business is a little slow right now?

johnboy said :

A lot more work than your average vandal would put in methinks.

Heck yeah, that would take a bucket load of elbow grease.

A lot more work than your average vandal would put in methinks.

Sounds like some little punks got stanley knives from Santa this year…. let’s hope they get caught.