The ever looming clouds of doom & gloom across our nations HQ

Glad that a slightly flippant comment on this striking image has kicked off some thoughtful debate and discussion.

In the last week, or two, I have been reflecting on Menzies’ concept of the “forgotten people” – in truth, those people have again been neglected (in favour of various elites and well-organised interest groups) and taken for granted by all the major parties. Any party which rediscovers, and genuinely looks after the “forgotten people”, would be doing the nation a great favour, and would almost certainly reap political rewards.

davo101 said :

switch said :

Politicians of any sort will say things to get them into power that they then go on to conveniently forget once the get there…

They may or may not be true, but can you picture any of the current bunch saying that out loud?

Menzies was typical a post-war conservative. That crop of conservatives – whether in Australia, the UK, the USA or even mainland Europe was pretty roundly committed to building up their respective countries.
None of them wanted government running the ‘means of production’ but they weren’t opposed to governments actually governing effectively and doing what people expected them to do well.
A government led project the scale of the Snowy Hydro System is just unthinkable now, the closest we’ve come is the NBN and that’s just been killed by the current mob.

Menzies, Holt, ect are completely in comparable to the cretins that started popping up around the late 70s and into the 80s. Fraser as PM could probably be said to be about the last old school conservative PM we had, and even then his cabinet had people like Howard.

The current crop of pollies are some of the worst we have ever had. Both sides are just hopeless.

switch said :

Politicians of any sort will say things to get them into power that they then go on to conveniently forget once the get there…

They may or may not be true, but can you picture any of the current bunch saying that out loud?

switch said :

davo101 said :

One other part of the forgotten people speech is:

Are the universities mere technical schools, or have they as one of their functions the preservation of pure learning, bringing in its train not merely riches for the imagination but a comparative sense for the mind, and leading to what we need so badly – the recognition of values which are other than pecuniary?

Hear that noise? That’s the sound of the entire current front bench’s heads exploding.

Politicians of any sort will say things to get them into power that they then go on to conveniently forget once the get there…

Yeah, like light rail in Canberra.

davo101 said :

Walker said :

The middle class you say, but read again, he was trying to define this and that, seems ultimately he was properly interested in all Australians.

So we’re in agreement then. The important point is that he wasn’t interested in keeping them in line, in fact he was interested in getting them to think for themselves (which is what I think “individuality” is referring to).

Walker said :

so he wasn’t quite the Liberal party sort we get nowadays.

That’s an understatement. Can you imagine any of the current party saying that the top end of town is big and mean enough to look after themselves? One other part of the forgotten people speech is:

Are the universities mere technical schools, or have they as one of their functions the preservation of pure learning, bringing in its train not merely riches for the imagination but a comparative sense for the mind, and leading to what we need so badly – the recognition of values which are other than pecuniary?

Hear that noise? That’s the sound of the entire current front bench’s heads exploding.

Bob was a statesman and from my observation there is not a single one in Parliament today. Rather, we have venal, self-serving, mean-spirited, myopic buffoons who do not serve this country one iota.

davo101 said :

One other part of the forgotten people speech is:

Are the universities mere technical schools, or have they as one of their functions the preservation of pure learning, bringing in its train not merely riches for the imagination but a comparative sense for the mind, and leading to what we need so badly – the recognition of values which are other than pecuniary?

Hear that noise? That’s the sound of the entire current front bench’s heads exploding.

Politicians of any sort will say things to get them into power that they then go on to conveniently forget once the get there…

Walker said :

The middle class you say, but read again, he was trying to define this and that, seems ultimately he was properly interested in all Australians.

So we’re in agreement then. The important point is that he wasn’t interested in keeping them in line, in fact he was interested in getting them to think for themselves (which is what I think “individuality” is referring to).

Walker said :

so he wasn’t quite the Liberal party sort we get nowadays.

That’s an understatement. Can you imagine any of the current party saying that the top end of town is big and mean enough to look after themselves? One other part of the forgotten people speech is:

Are the universities mere technical schools, or have they as one of their functions the preservation of pure learning, bringing in its train not merely riches for the imagination but a comparative sense for the mind, and leading to what we need so badly – the recognition of values which are other than pecuniary?

Hear that noise? That’s the sound of the entire current front bench’s heads exploding.

davo101 said :

HiddenDragon said :

Ming offering young Tone advice on how to keep the lower orders in line…..

I think you’re channelling the wrong Menzies there. Remember that he was far more interested in the middle class than the other two ends which he described as:

I exclude at one end of the scale the rich and powerful: those who control great funds and enterprises, and are as a rule able to protect themselves – though it must be said that in a political sense they have as a rule shown neither comprehension nor competence. But I exclude them because, in most material difficulties, the rich can look after themselves.

I exclude at the other end of the scale the mass of unskilled people, almost invariably well-organised, and with their wages and conditions safeguarded by popular law. What I am excluding them from is my definition of the middle class. We cannot exclude them from problems of social progress, for one of the prime objects of modern social and political policy is to give them a proper measure of security, and provide the conditions which will enable them to acquire skill and knowledge and individuality.

The middle class you say, but read again, he was trying to define this and that, seems ultimately he was properly interested in all Australians. (The idea of individuality in said classes, not sure about that, could be a historical or context thing…?).

In any case, from some old timers I’ve talked to, people including fairly typical Labour supporters held some respect, even admiration for him, so he wasn’t quite the Liberal party sort we get nowdays.

HiddenDragon said :

Ming offering young Tone advice on how to keep the lower orders in line…..

I think you’re channelling the wrong Menzies there. Remember that he was far more interested in the middle class than the other two ends which he described as:

I exclude at one end of the scale the rich and powerful: those who control great funds and enterprises, and are as a rule able to protect themselves – though it must be said that in a political sense they have as a rule shown neither comprehension nor competence. But I exclude them because, in most material difficulties, the rich can look after themselves.

I exclude at the other end of the scale the mass of unskilled people, almost invariably well-organised, and with their wages and conditions safeguarded by popular law. What I am excluding them from is my definition of the middle class. We cannot exclude them from problems of social progress, for one of the prime objects of modern social and political policy is to give them a proper measure of security, and provide the conditions which will enable them to acquire skill and knowledge and individuality.