18 November 2025

What you need to know about 'The Dismissal’ - and why it probably won’t happen again

| By James Coleman
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You’ve seen the photo – Gough Whitlam delivering his immortal line to reporters on the steps of Old Parliament House. But what led up to the moment? Photo: Museum of Australian Democracy, National Archives of Australia.

“Kerr said to him, ‘We shall all have to live with this.’”

“And then Whitlam just looked at him, and said, ‘You certainly will.’ And they never spoke again.”

You might know “Well may we say, ‘God save the Queen’, because nothing will save the governor-general” as the most famous line ever uttered in Australian political history.

But to Campbell Rhodes, head curator of the new exhibition at Canberra’s Museum of Australian Democracy (MOAD) – The Dismissal: Words That Made History – it’s the quieter exchange between prime minister Gough Whitlam and governor-general Sir John Kerr that says it all.

“By all accounts, it does appear to have been real,” Rhodes says.

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Tuesday, 11 November 2025, marked exactly 50 years since Whitlam turned up at Government House expecting to discuss how to break a political deadlock – and instead was told he’d been sacked.

To mark the anniversary, MOAD has opened a major exhibition featuring never-before-seen documents from the Whitlam Institute and University of Melbourne archives, including the original letter of Dismissal itself.

But if you’ve grown up hearing about ‘The Dismissal’ without really knowing what went down, here’s what happened – and why we’re still talking about it half a century later.

The Dismissal is on exhibition at the Museum of Australian Democracy. Photo: Museum of Australian Democracy (MOAD).

So, run me through what happened.

Whitlam’s Labor government came to power in 1972 after 23 years of Liberal-Country rule. Its campaign slogan – ‘It’s Time’ – captured the national mood for change, and Whitlam moved quickly on big reforms, such as free university education and the beginnings of what has since become Medicare.

But by 1975, Labor was in trouble. It didn’t control the Senate and had lost public support due to a number of scandals, chief among which was the ‘loans affair’.

“The loans affair was essentially the government seeking to get temporary loans for large infrastructure projects of about $6 billion [about $25 billion today],” Rhodes says.

“The loans were raised internationally by all sorts of forces, but the front man for the loans was an Iraqi businessman called Tirath Khemlani.”

The loan money never arrived, and opposition leader Malcolm Fraser saw an opening.

In October 1975, he used his party’s numbers in the Senate to block the government’s Budget – effectively cutting off funding – until Whitlam agreed to call an election. It was a high-stakes tactic known as “blocking supply”.

Sir John Kerr. Photo: National Archives of Australia.

Whitlam refused, arguing that his government still held a majority in the House of Representatives and therefore had every right to govern. Fraser dug in. Neither man would budge.

As the government’s money began to run out, governor-general Sir John Kerr quietly sought advice from the chief justice of the High Court, Sir Garfield Barwick. Barwick confirmed that Kerr had the constitutional power to dismiss a prime minister who couldn’t secure supply.

On 11 November 1975, Kerr acted.

When Whitlam arrived at Government House for what he thought would be an advisory meeting about the situation, Kerr handed him a letter terminating his commission and that of his government.

“We’ve been sacked,” Whitlam reportedly told his advisers.

Within hours, Kerr had sworn Fraser in as caretaker prime minister, supply bills were passed, and Parliament was dissolved for a December election.

That afternoon, standing before an angry crowd outside Parliament House, Whitlam delivered the words that made history:

“Well may we say, ‘God save the Queen’, because nothing will save the Governor-General.”

Gough Whitlam never spoke to Sir John Kerr again after this day. Photo: Museum of Australian Democracy, National Archives of Australia.

So, why is this controversial?

Kerr had used what are known as his reserve powers – unwritten constitutional powers allowing a governor-general to appoint a prime minister in the case of an unclear election outcome, to dismiss a prime minister if they don’t have a majority in the House of Representatives, or if they break the law, and to refuse a request from a prime minister to call an election.

Some argued these powers threaten democracy when vested in one person, but others thought it was positive – breaking a deadlock and restoring stable government.

“Depending on who you ask, Kerr was either a man in a difficult position doing his duty to resolve a crisis, or someone who wanted to be at the centre of things and thought himself to be the king,” Rhodes says.

Either way, the December 1975 election ended in a landslide victory for Fraser’s Liberal-National Country Party coalition.

“By that time, the shock of the dismissal had started to wear off,” Rhodes says.

“The Coalition actually won enough seats to govern without the Nationals if it had wanted to.”

READ ALSO ‘It’s time to leave shit behind’: Mark Parton’s plan to lead unified Liberals to government

Would it happen again?

In theory, yes – but in practice, probably not.

The Constitution hasn’t changed since 1975, meaning the Senate still has the power to block supply, and the governor-general still holds reserve powers. However, Rhodes says the political and media landscape has undergone significant changes.

“The way it was done at the time was in almost total secrecy,” says Rhodes.

“Fraser didn’t tell anyone what he was doing. Even his wife didn’t really know. In the modern day, everyone’s movements are tweeted. The secrecy and clandestine stuff would not be able to happen today.”

Sam Mostyn

Governor-General Sam Mostyn speaking at the Museum of Australian Democracy. Photo: MOAD.

Current Governor-General Sam Mostyn has agreed it’s “highly unlikely” too.

“One of the beauties of our constitutional arrangements and the reserve powers is that they are there … in the interest of stability,” Ms Mostyn said recently.

“I’m not going to say it would never happen, but the fact that we’re discussing it 50 years later … tells us that we will not be in this position where a governor-general will be sitting across from a sitting prime minister and effectively using the dismissal power.”

Still, Rhodes says the event’s legacy endures.

“People joined the Labor Party and got active in politics because they were furious about being thrown out, and others joined the Liberal Party to prevent Labor getting back in. This is an event that galvanised the country.”

Visit the MOAD website for more information on ‘The Dismissal: Words That Made History’ exhibition.

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Yeah, nah. I’m sorry but I tried reading this and it’s so….incredibly mundane and ordinary, I still don’t understand what all the fuss is about.

A Prime Minister was dismissed by the representative of the English Crown…it was quite the big deal at the time….and historically and legally it always will be.

I’m curious about this and don’t understand what all the fuss is about. I suspect it’s the media trying to make Australia sound more exciting than what it really is. LOL

50 years since the dismissal and current events also make you wonder if another government was removed in highly controversial circumstances. The Higgins affair was weaponised by Labor – especially Albanese, Gallagher, Wong and Dreyfus – to paint a very negative picture of the Morrison government. A picture, as it turns out, that was built on false accusations of cover ups, lies, the use of parliamentary privilege and a grubby, complicit media campaign by left wing journalists.

Two subsequent trials – last year and this year – found not a shred of evidence of a cover up and found that Linda Reynolds and her CoS Fiona Brown acted entirely appropriately. Those trials also found significant “untruths” on the part of those that Albanese and Labor supported.

So the question is – did voters remove the Morrison government on the back of the now discredited Labor campaign in 2021 and 2022 ?

Tedious, the Morrison government wasn’t sacked because of Brittany Higgins…Geez how far back does the copeium go?

“Those trials also found significant “untruths” on the part of those that Albanese and Labor supported.”

I do enjoy how you regurgitate jaundice right wing opinion as if it’s fact and expect it to be taken seriously.

“So the question is ….” complete nonsense that no reasonable person is taking seriously.

Sorry seano, this is one of those issues where the real world and your narrow views have a clash. But as always, in the interests of helping lift the knowledge pool, here are the facts.

“Ms Higgins’s media interviews with journalists Samantha Maiden and Lisa Wilkinson contained assertions that were “objectively untrue and misleading”, he said, citing 26 examples.”

Here’s the “right wing” ABC’s reporting of the judgement:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-08-28/linda-reynolds-brittany-higgins-defamation-trial-analysis/105702578

Perhaps like Higgins, Wong and Gallagher, an apology is in order.

And now we can move on the more substantive issue – did their false allegations trigger a change in government ?

LMAO Penfold…I didn’t realise that Higgins, Maiden and Wilkinson were …..”Albanese and Labor”. Which seats were they in?…actually I’m fairly sure Ms Higgins was a member of the…*checks notes*….Liberal Party and Maiden & Wilkinson are journalists…LMAO.

Lol…it is quite funny though that you’re quoting a judgement about “untruths” and being “misleading” whilst literally doing that yourself. Your opinion and those of the right wing bobblehead opinion writers your regurgitate so religiously are, I’m afraid not proof of anything….well other that an inability to distinguish between opinion an fact.

“And now we can move on the more substantive issue”….it’s not…. “did their false allegations…”….I’d be careful about what you describe as “false” buddy, especially given the litigious nature of all the parties involved and that there was plenty of fault to around over different aspects of this complex case…your anonymity doesn’t protect you.

But to answer your silly question…” trigger a change in government ?”….ah no.

Misrepresenting what happened and stating opinion as fact, do not make the Higgins affair a significant electoral issue in 2022.

Here’s a better argued (not hard) analysis of the what shaped the 2022 election for your edification.

https://cass.anu.edu.au/news/six-factors-shaped-2022-federal-election

seano – some refreshing factual info there, those people are not, in fact, Albanese. As for Labor, well that’s harder to tell.

But here’s the kicker, and for your benefit I’ll type slowly …. Wong and Gallagher used and repeated the comments made in the media in parliament. That’s the big house on the hill. It’s aka cowards castle when people hide behind parliamentary privilege to make grubby allegations.

In this case allegations proven to be false. Now you’ve demonstrated quite some outrage about the circumstances around the dismissal but once again apply completely opposite …. err …. values with regards to Labor’s proven lies.

Thanks for the legal advise seano. I’ve read parts of the judgement and Justice Tottle clearly used the term “untruths” regarding Higgins testimony.

Now if you’d like to argue whether the term untruth and false mean the same thing or not, take it up with the Oxford dictionary. I’m going with Justice Tottle.

Your opinion is not fact Penfold…it’s certainly (and we know this from election results & polling) not in line at all with the opinion of the general public.

““untruths” regarding Higgins testimony.”…and once again when cornered by ridiculousness of his comments Penfold resorts to the strawman argument who said other wise?

Your whole argument is the usual Penfold fantasy….the Higgins affair did not significant move the needle on the 2022 election, you’ve not at all presented any evidence to this effect, your not liking Labor and taking sides on the issue as a typical partisan does not change that.

You’ve posted some pretty poor arguments to justify your beliefs over the journey but this one is hall of material. Kudos.

The plot thickens …. has the Prime Minister misled Australians ?

Linda Reynolds posted this yesterday:

“The significance of the Prime Minister’s comments yesterday should not be understated. Putting aside his complete failure to grasp the findings of two separate judgments of superior courts of this country, yesterday demonstrated either a complete lack of understanding of his government’s role in the settlement of Ms Higgins’ claims against me, or a blatant lie”

Former Supreme Court Judge, Ken Martin, made this observation yesterday:

“He (Albanese) seemed to be incapable of grasping the difference between A, the fact of a sexual assault, which nobody seems to be arguing about anymore, and B, the ‘cover-up’ by several years later trying to run the line, accepted by The Project, that in fact, this poor young woman was forced to make a choice between her career and all that sort of thing if she sort of bleated it out,”

A fairly damning assessment there by the Judge.

So the question almost writes itself seano – is Albanese telling untruths, or does he simply not understand his government’s role and behaviour in this issue ?

And did this impact the 2022 election outcome ?

Tedious. Cutting and pasting opinion pieces from the Australian doing the bog standard cherry pick different comments/aspects of an issue to attack the PM whilst sanitising their side of politics isn’t proof of anything other than your partisanship…Higgins was a Liberal staffer and what happened to her was in a Liberal MPs office. More to the point, none of this makes the Higgins affair a 2022 election issue, it barely makes it current for anyone other than culture wars dopes in 2025.

“And did this impact the 2022 election outcome ?”

Ah…no. You’ve presented no evidence whatsoever that the Higgins affair was in the mind of voters in 2022. You not liking Labor and only seeing this issue from the jaundiced point of view of what political points can be scored for your team doesn’t make it a 2022 election issue either.

But please do push this nonsense all the way through to 2028 because like most of your arguments it’s going nowhere.

The funny thing of course is that left-leaning media these days don’t report anything which paints the Albanese government in a bad light. Didn’t he get grumpy with the young journalist who asked the question, poor character flaw there. An apology required.

And it suggests that where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

Reynolds has now launched legal action against the Commonwealth so this issue isn’t going away. Albo has two silks on the case at probably $20k per day including Dreyfus’ old mate Gleeson. They’re doing their very best to keep all Higgins payout details buried as long as possible. But it’s all going to come out, as Reynolds said yesterday.

Gallagher and Wong must be petrified, their careers might be under some serious threat. Like you seano all they’re got is denials. Like that river in Eqypt.

“The funny thing of course is that left-leaning media … ” yeah I’m not interested in any of this drivel. I’m not interested in your partisan view of the Higgins affair, nor debating it with you. Your only interest here is in scoring points in the culture wars over an issue that for most of the Australian public is irrelevant.

You claimed that the Higgins affair impacted the 2022 election but have presented no evidence that the issue moved a single vote. Your partisan hot takes on the issue post-2022 are predictable, boring and not proof of anything.

As ever Penfold you’ve started with a ridiculous supposition, and when challenged to back it up with evidence you’ve descended into morass of nonsense, irrelevancy, culture wars and strawman.

The were a number of reasons the coalition lost in 2022, Scott Morrison’s unpopularity certainly a large part of it, but after 8 years of government about nothing the Australian public decided to move on and so should you.

PS. In case you missed it, the LNP lost another election in 2025, one of their worst results ever and as they seek to double down on the same policies that lost them the 2025 election they’re currently on track to setting a new worst result record in 2028…potentially falling into minor party status. Enjoy.

seano here’s a bit of an inconvenient truth. Bill Shorten (remember him) Chief of Staff Cameron Milner – states this:

“Anthony Albanese has a problem with the truth. A problem with his “mean girls” and the $2.4 million payout to former Liberal staffer Brittany Higgins whose allegation of rape by a co-worker and that allegations weaponisation helped make him Prime Minister.”

Let’s just repeat that …. “a problem with the truth …. allegations weaponisation helped make him Prime Minister.”

Now seano – let’s follow your expert comments here:

“You claimed that the Higgins affair impacted the 2022 election but have presented no evidence that the issue moved a single vote. Your partisan hot takes on the issue post-2022 are predictable, boring and not proof of anything …. As ever Penfold you’ve started with a ridiculous supposition, and when challenged to back it up with evidence you’ve descended into morass of nonsense, irrelevancy, culture wars and strawman.”

So we’ve now got collaboration from Labor sources of evidence, and far from “descended into morass of nonsense, irrelevancy, culture wars and strawman”, there’s plenty of substance here.

Are you now going to accept the substance of the issue and apologise for such baseless, ignorant and nasty comments ?

With ALP sources pointing directly at Albanese – Australia’s “transparent and honest” Prime Minister – are you man enough to admit error seano ?

We all know the answer seano. No honour, no honesty and clearly no substance.

Tedious.

Bill Shorten’s opinion on anything is not proof of anything at all. Your jaundiced, biased, opportunistic, cherry-picked, one-sided and misrepresented “analysis” of the Higgins affair is NOT proof that voters made decisions at the ballot box in 2022 on this issue.

Your only interest here is pretending that it was an election impacting issue so you can push your culture wars arguments. And I’m sorry I’m not interested in any of it.

I am interested in the claim that the Higgins affair shifted votes and for that you STILL have not provided a single piece of evidence, no pre-election polling, no exit polling nothing. It’s an opinion based on nothing and like everything presented without evidence it can be dismissed.

“Are you now going to accept the substance of the issue and apologise for such baseless, ignorant and nasty comments ?”

I stand by everything I’ve said. Your opinions are not fact.

“We all know the answer seano. No honour, no honesty and clearly no substance.”

What lacks “honour” is the complaining about personal attacks while launching them constantly whenever you’re short of reasoned argument, which is often. What’s lacks honesty is taking a position in the culture wars and claiming that this moved votes with no actual evidence when you know that logically cannot be true. What lacks substance are the constant culture wars.

There is no reasoned analysis backed with evidence that the Higgins affair significantly impacted the 2022 election. Time to let it go, you lost in 2025 and you’re on track to lose again in 2028….maybe try to work out why that is.

Um, seano, nowhere was Bill Shorten’s opinion mentioned.

Do you ever read past a couple of words before launching into those convoluted diatribes ? Perhaps reading first might save further humiliation 🤣

Still tedious I see.

As I keep pointing out to you Penfold, whether it’s the opinion of Bill Shorten, Cameron Milner or whoever’s hot takes you’re cutting and pasting from the Australian they are all…irrelevant .

You claimed that the Higgins affair impacted the 2022 election.

I asked for proof and you’ve come back with nothing but opinion and low-rent culture wars themed “analysis” of the actual bun fighting between the parties involved. Which is NOT proof that this impacted voters minds as I keep pointing out to you.

Having presented not one iota of proof that any votes were moved in 2022 on the basis of the Higgins affair the only humiliation here Penfold is as ever yours.

Reading, writing and a
Arithmetic can be so tricky can’t they.

“Brittany Higgins whose allegation of rape by a co-worker and that allegations weaponisation helped make him Prime Minister.”

Which is….an opinion….it is not proof just because you agree with it Penfold. Show me proof.

Show me polling data, exit polls something. Show me actual proof that Higgins affair significantly impacted the 2022 election.

Here’s a detailed analysis of the 2022 election backed with actual data. You’ll note that Higgins is not mentioned anywhere.
https://australianelectionstudy.org/wp-content/uploads/The-2022-Australian-Federal-Election-Results-from-the-Australian-Election-Study.pdf

“Reading, writing and a
Arithmetic can be so tricky can’t they.”

It’s more the comprehension that lets you down Penfold.

Here’s a scoop for you seano. This will be novel and difficult to digest.

People vote based on their opinion.

Sorry to shock you 🤢

I see where at the portion of the “debate” where Penfold having lost again resorts to trite nonsense and emojis.

“People vote based on their opinion.”

Yes…and you haven’t proven that their opinion when deciding their votes in 2022 was impacted by the Higgins affair.

The professional analysis linked above which relies on actual research and data does not mention Higgins once, in their assessment of voting in the 2022 election.

You’ve lost another one debate because you can’t back your initial nonsensical contention up with evidence. Sorry to shock you.

The results at the following two elections suggest the Australian people agreed with the decision to move forward that fateful day.

Actually everything stopped as the Gov had no money jobs were lost people left 2 years or more before it slowly came back

HiddenDragon10:30 pm 16 Nov 25

The 1977 amendment to the Constitution on the filling of casual Senate vacancies eliminated one of the contributory factors that led to what happened on that fateful day in 1975, but the more relevant point is surely the significant growth in the Senate cross bench.

Earlier in 1975, Whitlam had, in what turned out to be a seriously misjudged flight of rhetorical overreach, taunted Fraser with what must have seemed, at the time, a very apt quote from Alexander Pope – “willing to wound, but afraid to strike”.

In the half century since, Pope’s words stand as a neat summation of Senate cross benches which have often blocked or demanded significant amendment to government legislation, but have shown no serious appetite for blocking supply and forcing an early election – long may it stay that way.

Sorry once again to point out what is obvious to every other reader seano but HD is making a historical political observation and comment. And giving Whitlam a large kick-in-the-backside along the way. But clearly it went straight over your head.

What are you babbling on about Penfold?

Even your usual failed attempts gotchas have now descended into barely coherent nonsense.

He pointed out that the loop which allowed for the inappropriate way that the Senate vacancy was filled has been closed, that Whitlam was wrong to taunt Fraser assuming he wouldn’t resort to the opportunism of misusing his Senate power and that Senate since has largely steered way from blocking supply for any government since…as it should.

And I agreed with that, because it is all true.

What’s upset you here is some of us are not blindly partisan, and that therefore your own blind partisanship is shown up for what it is, ideological vacuousness that can ultimately be dismissed.

Well seano we can agree you’ve got an issue with coherence. Especially the “not blindly partisan” part !

For the record it was the Governor-General who dismissed Whitlam, not the Opposition Leader at the time.

HD, there wasn’t even a strong appetite to block supply before the Dismissal (despite Whitlam trying in 1970).

But the Whitlam Government’s crazy antics pushed many in the Liberal Party to think action should be taken. And the electorate agreed with them.

(And don’t forget, for many years there was a different ‘block’ voting system in the Senate, meaning whatever Norm that existed had not existed since 1901 because the Senate had almost always had the numbers of whatever Party ruled the lower house.)

Penfold every time you post one of these sad, vacuous, pointless jibes because you can’t defend your political positions and are clear upset about that, it’s another win. Thanks for playing.

“For the record it was the Governor-General who dismissed Whitlam, not the Opposition Leader at the time.”

For the record, no one challenged this…

Genius stuff always Penfold…lol.

Hayward Maberley8:43 pm 16 Nov 25

Kerr was leading light in the Australian Association for Cultural Freedom, described by Jonathan Kwitny of the WSJ in his book, The Crimes of Patriots, “an elite, invitation-only group, exposed in Congress as being founded, funded and generally run by the CIA”, CIA “paid for Kerr’s travel, built his prestige, Kerr continued to go to CIA for money”.(1)

Whitlam enabled a royal commission into intelligence agencies, headed by Justice Hope in 1974. In the US, the Watergate scandal & hearings had shown CIA involvement in domestic politics & the Church Committee committee was established to investigate such.

Also the actions taken by CIA itself in regard to Pine Gap enabling global surveillance & also domestic Australian surveillance, allowing it to monitor anti-VietNam Farrago & anti-US political activity, within Australia as revealed at the trial of “falcon/snowman” spy Christopher Boyce in 1977(2)

CIA extended its domestic subversive activities in establishing the Sydney-based Nugan Hand Bank, a focus for channelling money sourced from drug & arms sales into its campaign of subversion around the world.(3)(4)

The Hope Royal Commission in one of its outcomes made ASIO accountable to the government and thus the Australian people, upsetting the ASIO applecart & leading to the dismissal of the Whitlam Government, helped by Governor General Kerr, who was not only the Queen’s representative, but part of the Anglo American intelligence establishment.

Recently revealed then chief of CIA Counterintelligence, 1954 to 1975, James Jesus Angleton, the year before the Dismissal had already wanted to have the Whitlam Government removed from power.

In Brian Toohey’s SECRET, such information obtained from John Walker the CIA chief of station in Australia in the Whitlam years.
Confirmed by Angleton in ABC’s Correspondent’s Report interview 1977 also discussed was CIA funding in Australian politics & unions(5)

This isn’t a comment on an article…..this IS an article!

Peter Graves3:13 pm 16 Nov 25

“Wouldn’t happen again” is based on the totally false premise of not having such a conspiracy again. The Governor-General – acting unilaterally as an individual – can still act in such a way again. There no legal prohibitions against the G-G doing it again – because s/he can.

There are no legal bars against the G-G acting undemocratically and magically conjuring up the “reserve” powers of an overseas monarch that do not exist in any written format. Much less in Australian law.

Using a foreign monarch – again – to throw out an elected Australian Government ? I don’t think so.

Peter, I suggest you follow Anne Twomey’s YouTube channel. She is a constitutional expert.

Nothing was conjured up, and the monarch had nothing to do with in.

In fact, it is possible that even a president would still hold reserve powers.

Agree. It’s a concern that this abuse of power could occur again. But it is a very narrow circumstance.

Hopefully it’s never tested but short of some very narrow circumstances around supply or some other extreme circumstances, as betting man I’d put a small wager on a G-G gone rogue with the reserve powers being thwarted quickly in the Hight Court since the passing of the Australia Act.

But we’ll never know unless it’s tested, so hopefully we’ll never know.

Peter Graves9:54 am 17 Nov 25

Please – do at least try to read Jenny Hocking’s book “Release the Palace Letters”. The Queen was part of the conspiracy, as Kerr had told Charles in September 1975 (at PNG’s independence day in Port Moresby) what he intended doing and subsequently basically asked for permission from the Palace thereafter.

Much more has just been discovered:
“Whitlam dismissal secrets unearthed from the archives of the Canadian governor-general.
This newly uncovered material, exclusively published by Crikey, is the first indication from Sir John Kerr himself that Queen Elizabeth II approved of the position he had taken during his dismissal of Gough Whitlam”
https://www.crikey.com.au/2025/10/27/whitlam-dismissal-secrets-canadian-governor-general/

So now you do know..

The reserve powers are not impacted by the Australia Acts at the federal level because the G-G’s Constitutional powers were unchanged, and the Palace did not make the decision to dismiss Whitlam.

Indeed, there has been talk about whether the Reserve Powers would remain in a Republic should we merely replace the G-G with a President (i.e. if we adopt a minimalist model).

It is possible that the reserve powers were impacted at the state level, subject to each state’s law/ constitution, because London approved the appointment of state governors prior to the Australia Acts.

@Peter

“So now you do know..”

What are you talking about? I agreed that there was a conspiracy to remove Whitlam and that it could happen again, in a very narrow set of circumstances which is a concern.

I merely pointed out that the idea of a G-G going completely rogue ie. Just using the reserve powers to sack a government, would likely end int he high court where I’d bet (it’s a bet because none of us actually know what the outcome would be until it is tested) it would fail. The high court being the highest court in the land since the passing of the Australia Act.

Peter Graves10:44 am 17 Nov 25

Apologies for the lack of connections. I was replying to Matt Watts and his extraordinary comment: “Nothing was conjured up, and the monarch had nothing to do with in.”

Hocking is FOS, and has tenuously linked the Palace Letters to her initial theory, despite having been fundamentally undermined by their content.

The G-G has the constitutional power, not the Sovereign. Read up.

@Peter …ah thanks. Interesting comments.

Peter Graves4:19 pm 17 Nov 25

Matt Watts – Those are the most amazing comments. The G-G is the Monarch’s representative in Australia. Professor Hocking most assuredly was NOT undermined by the comments she had to squeeze out of the Archives.

The G-G did MOT have any constitutional powers – read up about Kerr’s use of the so-called “reserve” powers – of the British monarchy he represented.

(Sigh)

Peter, please read the Australian Constitution and listen to Anne Twomey. You don’t need to, but I’ve already dragged this horse to water.

The more we read about the dismissal the more it seems driven by Whitlam’s belligerence.

He couldn’t pass supply bills because of the massive spending agenda, so basically stuck his head in the sand and refused to negotiate. Kerr was left little choice but to remove him.

Fact free Penfold at it again.

If you’d read the article you would have noted :”Whitlam turned up at Government House expecting to discuss how to break a political deadlock”…and found himself sacked…how you claim belligerence drove the dismissal and there was an unwillingness to negotiate from that is the stuff of pure Penfoldian fantasy.

Agreed, Penfold.

Whitlam had refused several ‘off-ramps’, had known about the idea of forcing an election via the blocking of supply (because he had previously attempted the same strategy himself!), heard Fraser publicly state that the G-G needed to intervene if the issue could not be resolved, and stopped off for a steak before telling his colleagues in the Senate!

Capital Retro5:23 pm 16 Nov 25

The guy had a massive ego.

There is a story that every time he went through airport security he set off an alarm which could not be explained after the usual checks were made.

Whitlam suggested it was his “aura” that set off the alarms.

Albo is going a bit the same way.

Penfold’s fact free comments continue unabated to whit “…. …. …… the more it seems to be driven by Whitlam’s belligerence”

Pray tell Penfold how an elected Government wanting to pass a supply bill is in any way belligerent ?

It was simple – Fraser was an opportunist & read the polls & found an incompetent buffoon in Kerr that he could manipulate.

Well seano this is an opinion forum so feel free to highlight the parts you disagree with. Perhaps you haven’t read much about those events, but it is fact that Whitlam couldn’t pass the supply bills and that he refused to negotiate, especially on the morning of November 11.

Technically you may be correct that he didn’t actually bury his head in the sand but even his own Labor colleagues describe a man of great belligerance, vanity and ego.

The steak story as MW describes does suggest a person far more interested in himself than his colleagues.

CR – the aura might have triggered airport alarms but was probably only visible in Whitlam’s mirror.

franky the opening lines of this article are demonstrative:

“Kerr said to him, ‘We shall all have to live with this.’” “And then Whitlam just looked at him, and said, ‘You certainly will.’

Whitlam seemed to think that he himself was faultless and, even more astonishingly, would not have to live with the consequences.

As a side note I notice that the MOAD website lists the key contributors to the Dismissal as the ABC, Melbourne Uni and the Whitlam Institute (plus NAA and the Kurrajong). No sign of Channel 7 or 9, Fairfax or News or any other independent media. I’ll pop along at some stage to check it out, but expectations of a two-or-three-sided balanced viewpoint are low.

“Well seano this is an opinion forum so feel free to highlight the parts you disagree with.”

So your nonsensical claim that Gough’s “belligerence” lead to the dismissal was the usual Penfold feels, not backed by evidence. Unsurprising.

Seano, the fact Whitlam refused multiple off-ramps (i.e. opportunities to pass supply) is proof enough of his belligerent nature.

‘“Kerr said to him, ‘We shall all have to live with this.’” “And then Whitlam just looked at him, and said, ‘You certainly will.’’

No they are not, Penfold. Those words were clearly after the actual sacking…you can’t claim that Whitlam’s sacking was due to his belligerence by using evidence from after his sacking…you’ve dug your self into another dumb hole.

Does penfold need evidence that thats their opinion?
Whats your evidence that its “the usual Penfold feels”?

“Seano, the fact Whitlam refused multiple off-ramps (i.e. opportunities to pass supply) is proof enough of his belligerent nature.”

No it’s not, he was the Prime Minister of the elected government of the day, being held hostage by an opportunity opposition, there is nothing aggressive in refusing to be bullied out of office.

The whole connection that Whitlam was sacked because of his “belligerence” and your bad faith defence of it are a nonsense.

“Does penfold need evidence that thats their opinion?”

I agree Henry, Penfold rarely relies one evidence. And whilst he is entitled to his opinions he’s not entitled to his own facts.

As to the facts having claimed that Whitlam’s belligerence led to the dismissal he has since tried to use Whitlam’s statements AFTER the dismissal as evidence of this supposed belligerene…as ever the facts are not his friend.

UK Prime Minister Asquith ended the House of Lords’ ability to end supply in 1911 or so. Australia had no such reform to its Constitution.

The US Senate also, clearly, can block supply.

Whitlam also stated in 1970 that a government unable to obtain supply would have to go to election.

Maintain the rage all you want, but your feels don’t change the facts.

Henry there appears to be a real struggle by seano to distinguish between opinion and fact, and even then to understand what constitutes fact. There’s no dispute that by November 11 Whitlam refused to negotiate any further which meant that the government would effectively shutdown USA style, unable to pay its bills.

seano even seems to think that Whitlam’s belligerence should only be measured pre-dismissal and doesn’t apply afterwards. Well belligerence is a character trait and applies through one’s whole life which the condition exists. One might apply the same the same belligerence tag to those unable to accept simple facts or that others can hold opinions which differ from oneself.

In fact there’s a certain irony to somebody demonstrating a high degree of belligerence then thinking they can be the judge of belligerence of someone they’ve never met and some half a century ago.

But at least it provides the rest of us a good laugh. 😂

Matt that’s a good point. Apparently between 1950 and 1970 Labor had attempted to block supply on some 170 occasions, all without success and all to bring down the government.

So what hypocrisy Whitlam complaining about the same tactic being used against him. And clearly he was aware of the surrounding issues and implications. Belligerence and hypocrisy are different things, but Whitlam wrapped them up together nicely.

Anyone can feel free to google these facts.

“Maintain the rage all you want, but your feels don’t change the facts.”

And strawman aren’t arguments Matt, do try harder.

“Henry there appears to be a real struggle by seano to distinguish between opinion and fact,”….you stated an opinion and I pointed out it was fact free nonsense, so it looks like we agree on something Penfold. The premise of your argument was as ever puerile partisanship, unsurprising and wrong also unsurprising.

Well if you think supply wasn’t blocked in 1975 feel free to write a book about seano’s Dismissal facts.

But do make sure it stays in the fiction section. Or put another way, “none of it is true” ! 🤣 📖

“Well if you think supply wasn’t blocked in 1975 feel free to write a book about seano’s Dismissal facts.”

In which Penfold, realising his opening statement that Whitlam was sacked because he was “belligerent” was silly, and that defending this claim with statements Whitlam made AFTER the dismissal was even sillier, defaults to the strawman argument.

Because as ever, that’s the only argument he’s got.

Sorry in advance seano, this one will be a struggle, but my comment was that Whitlam’s dismissal was driven by his belligerence, not because of it. One suspects it was the last straw for Sir John. Now to get your mind around this concept, you’ll have to jump from first base to at least second base. A big ask i know, but i’m confident you can at least try.

You do seem to really struggle when simple realities are placed front and centre. Perhaps that book could be called Seano’s Facts and Other Fantasies.

“The more we read about the dismissal the more it seems driven by Whitlam’s belligerence.”

It was a nonsense statement, your backpedalling and post fact justifications, where you literally tried to claim Whitlam’s words AFTER the dismissal were evidence of your nonsensical contention, hasn’t dug you out of another hole you’ve dug for yourself.

That book would be a hoot seano. Can’t say i’d read it but the structure would be pretty obvious:

Chapter 1 – Culture Wars
Chapter 2 – Strawmen
Chapter 3 – Renewables are cheaper
Chapter 4 – Advanced drivel
Chapter 5 – Culture Wars
Chapter 6 – Strawmen
Chapter 7 – Renewables are cheaper
Chapter 8 – Advanced drivel
Chapter 9 – Culture Wars

Page count: about five.

Even by your standards that’s pretty childish Penfold, it does suggest though that you’ve given up on defending your nonsensical claim that Whitlam was sacked because of belligerence. But then again…maybe Chapter 10 – Shooting Fish In A Barrell.

Capital Retro9:33 am 18 Nov 25

It would be a winner at the Canberra Writers Festival.

That would require a very broad definition of the term “writer”. Though this forum could be appropriate:

https://www.canberrawritersfestival.com.au/kidsandyaday

Remember when you claimed Gough was dismissed because of his belligerence and then tried to prove this by using his words after his dismissal and we all laughed? Good times.

Genius stuff as always Penfold…lol

As luck would have it seano yes, I do remember the belligerence comment.

It’s the first comment on this thread 🤣

And it was demonstrably nonsense…thanks for playing.

So you keep repeating. Though you’d have to have been in Sir John’s mind 50 years ago to make that assertion with any level of certainty. Thanks for the laugh 😃

How comical, you’re still actually claiming that Whitlam was dismissed because of Whitlam’s “belligerence” and not that an opportunistic Liberal Party took advantage of a low act by the corrupt “Sir” Joh…funny stuff Penfold.

Glad to learn that despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary you do, on occasion, have a sense of humour 🙂

Whitlam refused to negotiate. In my eyes, that is belligerence.

Sure, the Liberal Party was pushing to become the government. Why wouldn’t they? That was their job.

Fake News Penfold. You have even outdone Trump on this one.
Voting against a supply bill when you DON’T have the numbers is purely symbolic & has been done many times by whoever is in opposition.
Blocking supply when you DO have the numbers is totally different & has only been done once in 1975.

“Whitlam refused to negotiate. In my eyes, that is belligerence.”

In your eyes as bad faith assist with post fact justification of Penfold’s puerile hot take and right wing booster you don’t have to admit that “Sir” Joh’s act was loathsome and Fraser taking advantage of the windfall was equally so.

“Glad to learn that despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary you do, on occasion, have a sense of humour”

Well I think it’s funny to post a dumb hot take and then instead of putting your hand up an admitting you got ahead of your skies trying to defend the nonsensical…as you so often do.

Whitlam was dismissed because the Liberals misused their Senate power gifted to them by the low act of “Sir” Joh….being “belligerent” was not why he was dismissed.

Funny stuff as always Penfold.

PS. @Matt “Call an election or we’ll block supply and force an election” is not a “negotiation”.

Feel free to consult a dictionary seano.

You’ll find lots of new words in there which, if understood, might help frame a better comprehension of contemporary issues, including this one.

Seano appears intimidated by others intellect and habitually undermines substantive discourse by disparaging participants, pursuing tangential arguments, and erecting strawmen. Such childish behavior seems all too common in governmental circles.

“Feel free to consult a dictionary seano.”

Feel free to apply some critical thinking penfold.

How is arguing an propriate reason for dismissing the Prime Minister?….genius stuff as always.

Whitlam was dismissed because an opportunistic Liberal Party shamefully took advantage of a loathsome act by “Sir” Joh.

A politician arguing is apparently reason enough to dismiss him ….that’ll do me….LMAO…one of your best Penfold…just genius stuff…lol

Yes Henry, it’s deny, deflect, insult, belittle. Most of it is based on a simple inability to understand.

“Yes Henry, it’s deny, deflect, insult, belittle. Most of it is based on a simple inability to understand.”

Thanks for the insight into your tactics Penfold, but this is not a DM.

seano i tried to help you understand this earlier but that attempt seems to have failed. Second time lucky perhaps ….

It wasn’t the Coalition who dismissed the incompetent Whitlam. It was the Governor-General. A chap named Sir John Kerr.

He was the Queens representative acting in accordance with the Australian constitution.

Perhaps with the school closures this week the dismissal lessons were missed.

“seano i tried to help you understand this earlier but that attempt seems to have failed. Second time lucky perhaps ….”

No you made a demonstrably silly claim, and you’ve spent rest of the time trying to dig yourself out of the hole.

“It wasn’t the Coalition who dismissed the incompetent Whitlam. It was the Governor-General. A chap named Sir John Kerr.”

Sigh, I never claimed this…

Whitlam was dismissed because the opportunistic Fraser used his numbers in the Senate, gifted to him by a loathsome act of “Sir” Joh, to block supply. Whitlam wasn’t dismissed…because of “belligerence”…a foolish argument….although not as foolish as trying to defend it.

Typical Seano: disagrees, throws pot-shots, declares victory. Do you print these out and keep them in a scrapbook?

Typical Henry: nothing worthwhile to contribute to the topic and yet still complains about the result.

I don’t need a scrapbook by the way these wins are all on a public forum. Cheers.

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