Young Kambah burglars doing it wrong

dpm said :

Whoops, I put some text in angled brackets so it didn’t appear in my last post.
It should have read:
“Aggrevated burglary by minors as they were:
[bored/needed drugs or alcohol]
because:
[their parents: didn’t love them/are druggos/are useless]“?

Great idea. I notice there’s not alot of creative thinking going on……as usual. I think the majority would like to stick to the latter. It’s easier.

I’ll give it a go though 🙂

Aggravated burgulary by minors as they were “perhaps”: angry and/or disconnected from society;

Because: they were lacking in insight due to their age, trying to fit in with other peers and/or influenced by media, “labelled” and “moulded” by their upbringing and attitudes of society towards them (eg. he’s the son of Falicia and therefore a good for nothing bogan so who gives a f**k….);

My ideas about solutions (which are not really different to current system): Engage family (if possible), young person to meet the victim and hear how they impacted on victim (if possible), give young person opportunity to make some reparation through returning or replacing stolen property or fixing property damage (under supervision), young person to participate in agreed activities that will help foster respect and connection to community, look at the “because” section above and work towards changing some of those perceptions;

As opposed to: Lynch, bash, imprison and further alienate young person.

Angelina. Don’t pretend to know what I think about the system. I do not blame the system or society for criminal behaviour, neither do I blindly accept that this is the only way to exist. I question systemic responses to individuals and groups who do not “fit” the idea of the “non criminal public” (that comment by Henry BG was so pompous, it made me LOL ). Rather……the majority of comments on this site blame individuals for their own circumstances and ignore the fact that our systemic and societal norms play a significant part in these issues. For example, would welfare workers (or Public Servants) have a job if there was no welfare system? Would there be a need for Police if there was no crime? Would there be a need to bitch on RA if there were no bogans? We all get something out of the disadvantaged in some way. The upper class requires a lower and working class in order to exist and so it goes on…..

Henry BG this is just a wiki link that states the well known fact that America has a fkd up prison system and high recidivism rates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States. If you hold such faith in American law enforcement, please watch the Michael Moore series and take a look at the societal factors contributing to one of the highest crime rates in the world. Do you really want to go down that path? I don’t!

Whoops, I put some text in angled brackets so it didn’t appear in my last post.
It should have read:
“Aggrevated burglary by minors as they were:
[bored/needed drugs or alcohol]
because:
[their parents: didn’t love them/are druggos/are useless]“?

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Honestly though it’s pretty hard to give a shit about societal factors when you’ve been on the receiving end of a break in or violent assault. More so when you consider that most people probably know at least one person who has had a hard life that hasn’t turned into a criminal.

Taking the moral high road is hard; moreso when you’ve personally suffered; so it’s OK to use outliers to justify taking a low road instead?

Either societal factors are real, and need to be taken into consideration, and that consideration needs to be made by everybody; or they’re not.

Of course societal factors are real. There is abuse, there is poverty, no ones denying that. But these factors are not always relevant. Being poor doesn’t justify stealing. Being treated badly by someone you know doesn’t justify treating a stranger (or their property) badly. This is evidenced by the fact that not everyone who is disadvantaged turns to crime.

I can understand why you think the justice system needs to take societal factors into consideration. And they do don’t they, isn’t this why criminals get given so many chances before being incarcerated? Because a judge has decided that they deserve another chance.

But do you really feel that someone is taking a moral low road because they don’t care why a criminal broke into their home and stole their property? That’s ridiculous. It’s their home and their stuff. No one has a right to break in and take it, and anyone who does deserves to be punished and made to take responsibility for their actions, not get pity because they blame society.

The only person who has a right to be truly outraged here is the victim. Not the criminals, and not people who think it’s not the criminals fault.

I’m not saying these kids should be lynched, or locked up, or sent away a la Escape from LA (awesome movie by the way). I’m saying they need to stand up and accept responsibility for their actions. Being able to do that as a kid would actually show some personal growth and remorse. And the suggestion of naming and shaming is one way this can be achieved.

Violet68 said :

HenryBG said :

They’re juveniles.
Their “human rights” will trump our right to have the scumbag criminals in our midst publicly identified.

What “rights” do you suggest the public have to that information and why? For what purpose do you suggest the public use that information? Is it going to give the public a couple of individuals to blame so they can feel better about crime rates? Do you expect the subsequent naming, shaming, possible lynching or incarceration to reduce the crime rate? If so, you’re just being silly. Come on peoples……think, discuss, stop bitching and blaming, look at realistic plausible solutions!

Hmmm, this could be an interesting way to get the thoughts of different RA posters. Perhaps you need to make a table with crimes (or ‘unfortunate societal/personal factors’ behind the crimes) down the left side, and columns for each containing:
Current ‘system’ punishment/rehab ‘solution’
Violet’s proposed solution
Extreme RA nutter proposed solution

Could be a good starting point for discussion! 🙂 Who wants to get the ball rolling?

My guess at the ‘crime’ for this case is: “Aggrevated burglary by minors as they were:

because:
“?
So, what are the current system solution, Voilet’s solution and the extreme solution (although, I think we already have enough of the latter)?

Honestly though it’s pretty hard to give a shit about societal factors when you’ve been on the receiving end of a break in or violent assault. More so when you consider that most people probably know at least one person who has had a hard life that hasn’t turned into a criminal.

Taking the moral high road is hard; moreso when you’ve personally suffered; so it’s OK to use outliers to justify taking a low road instead?

Either societal factors are real, and need to be taken into consideration, and that consideration needs to be made by everybody; or they’re not.

Violet68 said :

HenryBG said :

They’re juveniles.
Their “human rights” will trump our right to have the scumbag criminals in our midst publicly identified.

What “rights” do you suggest the public have to that information and why? For what purpose do you suggest the public use that information? Is it going to give the public a couple of individuals to blame so they can feel better about crime rates? Do you expect the subsequent naming, shaming, possible lynching or incarceration to reduce the crime rate? If so, you’re just being silly. Come on peoples……think, discuss, stop bitching and blaming, look at realistic plausible solutions!

I’ll address your questions and poits seriatim.

1/ We, the public, are entitled to know the names of those in our midst who don’t meet the stadards of civilised behaviour.
2/ The non-criminal public, if informed as to the identities of the criminals in our midst, can take measures to protect themselves and their proprty from those criminals.
3/ I think it *is* appropriate to blame criminals for the crimes they commit.
4/ naming/shaming/lynching/incarceration will certainly reduce the crime rate. When New York abandoned your policy of tolerance for criminals and started to actually do something about them, crime plummeted.
5/ Silly? There is nothing silly about society wanting to protect itself from malefactors. There are lots of different ways to do it, but the first step is to abandon this obsession with the “rights” of criminals and concentrate on the rights of their victims.

whitelaughter said :

DUB said :

Ambulance should have waited until that douche bag bled to death, then conveyed him to the hospital for to be formally IDed by the relatives..
🙂

…rather than putting a gaol near Canberra, why not have one in the middle of one of Australia’s many deserts? No walls – if they’re dumb enough to run off into the desert, we’re down one criminal. Those that are smart enough to stay at the gaol would be those with a chance of being rehabilitated, so also lets us focus ‘2nd chance’ efforts where they can actually do some good.

I’m picturing Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome – get the crims to fight it out – survival of the fittest.

farnarkler said :

Alan I got the wrong word completely.

Thought so. Easy enough to do.

DUB said :

Ambulance should have waited until that douche bag bled to death, then conveyed him to the hospital for to be formally IDed by the relatives..
🙂

…rather than putting a gaol near Canberra, why not have one in the middle of one of Australia’s many deserts? No walls – if they’re dumb enough to run off into the desert, we’re down one criminal. Those that are smart enough to stay at the gaol would be those with a chance of being rehabilitated, so also lets us focus ‘2nd chance’ efforts where they can actually do some good.

I wasn’t fishing. It was a straighforward and outright question.

The reason I was curious is because you clearly think you know better. Not only better than the system, but better than any person here who disagrees with you. Someone who is so sure that everyone else is wrong and that they are right would, I think, have considerable experience in this field and I was curious as to what your experience was. If you don’t care to elaborate on your experience then that’s your affair.

For all your criticism of the current system I’ve yet to see you come up with a logical, rational alternative. Actually, there was one on the thread about the people who threw rocks at a taxi and injured the occupants. You suggested something like making the offenders work at a rehabilitation facility for people who had been injured in car accidents. I actually thought that was a good idea.

As for the rest…

Everyone I know is aware that kids from abusive or disadvantaged backgrounds are more likely to be exposed to a crap life. This isn’t news. To anyone. Honestly though it’s pretty hard to give a shit about societal factors when you’ve been on the receiving end of a break in or violent assault. More so when you consider that most people probably know at least one person who has had a hard life that hasn’t turned into a criminal.

You mentioned in your earlier post here that we should all stop blaming. Well how about you set an example by not blaming society for the actions of the anti-social criminal element.

I think you use words like disadvantaged, mental-illness, drug addicition, etc as an excuse for the actions of criminals. Criminals who have made a choice to do what they do. And I think you try to blame society for the choices these people make. I think you expect the entire justice system to change to fit the view you have that it’s everyone except the criminals fault. The fact is you’ll always have a problem with the police, the justice system, the prisons and society unless it’s all done the way you think is right.

Lets just agree to disagree and move on.