Images of Canberra - Civic Skate Park

FFS what happens to bread when you put it in the toaster ?

You get toast.

Graffiti that is legal is no longer called graffiti, it’s a mural.

Interestingly, when you put toast in a toaster it doesn’t come out as toast either – it’s then called a zwieback.

My bizarre circular argument? Jeebus! Are we on the same planet here?

Yep – most of the graffiti in Canberra is illegal. Some of it isn’t. No need to tar all graffiti with the same brush (ahem). Might as well ban all driving cause some people speed.

I would argue that legal graffiti, as was supposed to happen on the wall in the photo, would work to reduce the amount of illegal (and frankly, ugly) stuff floating around (rather like the throwups in photo).

I’m sure I speak for all the advocates of legal graffiti when I say I would be happy to see the end of illegal graffiti. We advocate more legal murals on walls as a way of beautifying our city. Surely you don’t begrudge adding a little colour and movement to a grey wall here and there…

If there were scores of artists kicking around who could do wall murals in other styles, I’d advocate that too. Hell – I say turn the whole city into a living art gallery, with pieces in every conceivable style.

Graffiti is the unofficial application of graphics on publicly viewable surfaces. It is defined as being “a drawing or writing scratched on a wall or other surface; a scribbling on an ancient wall, as those at Pompeii and Rome”.[1] When done without the property owner’s consent, graffiti is a form of vandalism and is punishable by law in most countries

What graffiti is NOT;

a mural (perhaps what your friend was painting?)
a fresco (Michelangelo)
an inscription

Nah mate, you should just give it a rest.

This whole do as I say, not as I do attitude renders your points moot.

It’s okay for you to break the law at will, in a fashion which endangers your life, other lives and can ruin the lives of the cops who’d have to pull your dead ass out of a wreck, but god forbid some teenager should drop a tag somewhere.

We can’t have that now can we?

Idiot.

My guess is that you don’t like graf cos you only like the colour brown. It’s the only one you’d see with your head stuck so far up your ass.

I’d happily go with a 100% rating with a +/- error adjustment of 1%

if someone chooses to have graffiti on their property – more power to them.

you cant ascribe beliefs to me which i dont hold just because it suits your bizarre circular argument.

and if you think comparing the sistine chapel to the drughazed scrawlings of people aping ny subway culture proves your point you are mistaken.

when one looks at a work of art you can tell its a work of art.

when one looks at graffiti you cant tell if its vandalism or placed there with the permission of the owner of the property.

despite the softhead bleatings of tonka and his ilk, im pretty sure that 99% of the graffiti seen in canberra has not been placed their with the permission of the owner of the property.

I m not a hypocrite tonka, but I don’t defend an illegal act as legal cos its artistic.

No but obviously you are a mindless ignorant penis puller, you cannot see that Tonka is not condoning illegal graffiti but is against it, you also fail to acknowledge that if the Artist has been commissioned for a work of art it is no longer illegal!

Just because you do not like it does not stop graffiti from being art, but it seems nothing can stop you for being an idiot.

What would you call Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel? Illegal graffiti or art? Let us compare Micks work and a commissioned grafiti artists
1. Both done on a building
2. They were asked to paint it
3. Oh it was painted

Holy Mama Jama, Michelangelo was a graffiti artist time to judge him and not acknowledge his works as art!

“Speeding kills” is without foundation? Now you’re just talking pants. As usual you’re the sole arbiter of what laws are stupid and what are good and should result in the summary execution of the offender.

Regardless – Tonka never argued for illegal graffiti or for vandalism. In fact, he seems to have been quite vociferous in his opposition. He has sought to bas

You are arguing that graffiti should never be legal, even when the owner of the wall in question wants it there (any may even be willing to pay for it – such as the case of the Petrie Plaza murals).

That’s awfully anti-libertarian of you, isn’t it? Are we seeing the emergence of a new Stalinist bonfire?

I must say though – you’ve been remarkably consistent with your “All graffiti is vandalism, and all graffiti artists are vandals” argument; even if it’s completely untenable.

I m not a hypocrite tonka, but I don’t defend an illegal act as legal cos its artistic.

No but obviously you are a mindless ignorant wanker, you cannot see that Tonka is not condoning illegal graffiti but is against it, you also fail to acknowledge that if the Artist has been commissioned for a work of art it is no longer illegal!

Just because you do not like it does not stop graffiti from being art, but it seems nothing can stop you for being an idiot.

What would you call Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel? Illegal graffiti or art? Let us compare Micks work and a commissioned grafiti artists
1. Both done on a building
2. They were asked to paint it
3. Oh it was painted

Holy Mama Jama, Michelangelo was a graffiti artist time to judge him and not acknowledge his works as art!

im not a hypocrite tonka, but i dont defend an illegal act as legal cos its artistic.

speeding kills is a social engineering mantra which is without foundation.

passengers walk in front of cars all the time.

WALKING KILLS.

is about as relevant.

and if thsi is the argument straw you are grasping for, i think you might as well run to someones wall and spray ‘im a loser’ on it.

with their permission of course.

Are we all so PC now to stand countenance behind the graffiti artist, pat him on the back so as to nurture his suffering self-ego, sing kumbayah and provide a human shield so that they don’t get arrested by the police ?

Lets get real here.

In the instance of being challenged by the police – was the artist actually arrested ? No. It’s value as an example ? Nil. The reason ? Because the person was doing something legal – duh. Talking to policemen and telling them whats going on isn’t some kind of special privelege reserved for graffiti artists is it ?

Graffiti vandalism by its very interpretation is an illegal activity, although it has spawned an artistic style. I’m sure that most will agree that as with the portraiture in the NGA, it’s not to everybodys taste, but that’s at an individual level.

And Blamemonkey, Bonfire are you so sensitive that a little paint or ink damages you? – might want to check out a famous little adage from Edward Butler-Lytton in 1839. Unless of course you are of the Terry Pratchett genus and admit that the the circumstance of the sword being very short, and the pen extremely sharp, the opposite is true.

Lets not digress into traffic violations in order to cast dispute onto sovereignty of the issue – that too is irrelevant, as well as raises the question of the legality of graffiti artists getting their training – I’m sure in context the UC will be holding the relevant Masters Degree Course in Graffiti next semester. How else does somebody ‘legitimately’ say that they are ‘qualified’ to legally produce public art – in any context ?

Bonfire is a hypocrite.

Even if he’s right and graf is an eyesore, speeding kills lots of people every year, especially on quiet country roads.

That’s a proven fact and cannot be argued.

Graf doesn’t kill.

And he has the hide to talk about unacceptable and illogical behaviour.

Hypocrite.

I’m saying nothing else.

S4anta, I’m not giving out contact details for anyone on the net.

Sorry mate.

Tonka,

How does one get in touch with these folks?

Bonfire – somedays your the statue – some days your the pidgeon – just shut up and stand still.

ley he who is without sin cast the first stone.

have you never sped ?

ever ?

Because he is Bonfire, he is mystical and he contains many wonders. Let us gather and learn more from the wise, wise old man.

How do you know they’re the same people Bonfire?

Also, some days you speed and litter, some days you are law abiding, how are we to know which day it is?

there are no inconsistencies in my argument.

apparently vandals can be criminals one day and artists the next, if they are defacing an ‘authorised’ wall.

how do people know the difference ? they dont.

how could anyone tell the eyesore at the top of thsi thread is legal or illegal ?

they cant.

but the vandals have some innate inner diviniation technique which allows them to differentiate.

if only i was so talented.

I think bonfire is just perennially unwilling to concede a point – regardless of the logical hole he has dug for himself.

I think bonfoire is the softhead in this case.

Sure tagging and bubble text outlines (aka throwups) are vandalism and look like sh*t – but when time is spent on doing a full production – and taking yopur time to do your best (mainly because you are not looking over your shoulder) – then the quality of the artmanship is astounding.

I think a lot of the problem is that the general public are unaware that certain sites i.e. under bridges etc – have been legalised – and then they see peopl epainting there and shoebox them into brash un-law abiding citizens.

As I stated before – my brother who is heavy into this stye of art is (a) A small business owner and operator and (b) Full time employed in aged care.

How can the way he chanels his artistic talent be a danger to society ?

Nobody is debating that the photo at the top of this thread is vandalism. It wasn’t approved.

However, if someone else had done a work in approximately the same style, with approval, it wouldn’t be vandalism.

Seems pretty simple to me. From what I’ve gathered from your ramblings, though, you’d still be against it even if it was authorised.

like the photo at the top of this thread ?

approved ?

Yep, Bonfire falls over at the simplest definition level – if it’s approved, it cannot, by definition, be vandalism.

You can still dislike it, find it ugly or even visually poluting, but it stops being vandalism if the owner of the property authorises it.

its like a grey import evo-vi.

Really I don’t see it? I think it is more like you’re a moron!

Bonfire are you so sensitive that a little paint or ink damages you?

call me naive but perhaps i just dont see it when i look at their vandalism the difference between approved and non-approved.
You’re naive and ignorant, if it is approved it is no longer vandalism!

ad ive never denied i dont speed, and im not self delusional to think its without consequence.

but me speeding down a country road is not the same as one of these talentless bozos tagging someones private property.

apart from a few roos, a cockatoo and some armco i cant say any damage has been caused by my actions whereas the negative effects of graffiti are visible everyday.

these softheads are self-delusional – firstly they think they are artists, secondly they think they have a right to ‘tag’ anywhere they like and thirdly they then wish to seperate themseleves into ‘law abiding, permission seeking’ and ‘someone else’.

call me naive but perhaps i just dont see it when i look at their vandalism the difference between approved and non-approved.

its like a grey import evo-vi.

the simple solution is to deface their own property and then they can all get together and admire each others work without inflicting it upon decent people.

Bonfire – just for your information – I am brother to one of Tonkas said artists – and such could be quite judgemental.

Instead I will quote you the facts.

He lives and breathes art and graffity style art – I have in my house a few commissions on canvas – as do our parents.

The individual I speak of has been accosted by the police while painting on a pre designated legal site. His car was in plain view of where he was painting – and also in plain fiew at about 200+ point font was his personal mobile number advertising his window tinting business.

Now the cops where trying to be stand off-ish – but he quietly explained that this was a legally designated site and that it would be absurd of himn to commit illegal acts when his contact details are in plain view.

The police made a phoen call – bad cop cleared it up on their side – while good cop was touting the virtues of a colourful city.

The police wished him a nice day and moved on.

My brother is (as most graffiti artists) quite passive and to that end – expresses himself with his art – as do I (playing guiitar) as do poets painters actors et al.

My brother is not a danger to the cmmunity and has been called upon several times to help host street art workshops – usually voluntary – but some still pending payment after months.

My brother is also a small buiness owner and operator and is full time employed in aged care.

I guess the point I am making here is that art is very subjective – whats art to some may not be for others.

For example – I was in melbourne last week – and at the bolte bridge end of Calder Fwy – there are about 8 tall swuare posts (red in colour) and a weird “chees stick” thing that hovers diagonally over the road.

I did not like it – but its still art – by someones definition.

Dont be so closed in opinion – we have a building in canberra full of canvasses and sculptures – some call it art – it probably is – but Im not denying that – its just not my thing – but its still art.

So im sorry if that was biased – I tried to stay neutral but blood will always be thicker than water

Hey Bonfire I think that your love for speeding while driving or littering ciggie butts is far more offensive and potentially destructive than some commissioned art. But then again I wonder if reality can actually make its way into that hardhead of yours.

BAM.

the medium being someone elses wall.

so who puts all the graffiti up ?

leprechauns ?

Come in spinner…

You clown.

I was joking. Only one of us is that anal and self important. It ain’t me either…

“my not agreeing with an illegal or at the least illogical and distasteful activity instantly allows me to be ascribed a whole set of other beliefs”

Like you ascribing my friends as criminals because of the medium they use to paint?

Nice dude.

dont you just love how my not agreeing with an illegal or at the least illogical and distasteful activity instantly allows me to be ascribed a whole set of other beliefs by this tonka softhead.

funniest thing ive seen all day.

Correction, Where someone HASN’T gone to the effort to make a facade attractive.

– and all of this for one sodding wall that needs a bit of colour thrown onto it.

The way I understand it

Graffiti is tagging and the big font colourful writing. I find all of this incomprehensible as writing and the technician in me can’t get past this problem of practical application in order to see the art. If someone sanctioned this sort of wall art I’d think they have something against money.

Then there’s murals. Like at Blades. Like the planet on the side of the Canberra Centre before the works began. Like that power shed next to the drain on Barry Drive with the skeleton dude and the lion face and stuff. Things that depict a scenes, objects, THINGS. This stuff I rate highly and usually see it in appropriate places, where someone has gone to the effort to make a facade attractive.

Place me with bonfire in the former (less judicially inclined though) and Blamies in the latter.

Got a great idea,

Going to get my mates to give up graf, give up every other interest they have, cut their hair into a nice respectable short back and sides, lead dull and boring, but acceptable lives, get a lobotomy, buy a cafe and then sit online and grumble and bitch about people who actually have lives and are creative.

I’ll suggest that they call themselves the children of Bonfire.

If everyone does it, we can all be self satisfied egomaniac morons who know how the world should be run.

Hey while we’re at it, let’s bring back conscription and national service and get rid of all the minorities that are responsible for all the crime.

While we’re at it, let’s clamp down on freedom of speech and bring in an Australian uniform that all people must wear at all times.

Let’s open up camps for the people who don’t want to play along.

Let’s make Pauline Hanson the president of Australia and get this country running the way it should be run… for the good of all the cafe patrons.

Thanks bonfire, you’ve shown my friends how they really should be living.

Not.

You clown… go eat more of your magic beans.

Either that or move to Chine and join the party like a good little robot.

You make me laugh.

the more softheads that disagree with me – the more i know im right.
Or possibly the more ignorant you become

tag/graffiti = Michelangelo?
One is a type of art the other is an artist

i need another shipment of magic beans…
It seems that they have already turned you into a giant arse maybe time to cut back.

Bonfire my point is you just never know who you are stamping out.

may like Picasso’s art, but I’d never introduce him to my girlfriend (pretending for a second that I had a girlfriend…)

From what I hear you’d want to have watched out for your boyfriend too.

the more softheads that disagree with me – the more i know im right.

tag/graffiti = michaelangelo?

i need another shipment of magic beans…

I dunno, AD. I mean, I may like Picasso’s art, but I’d never introduce him to my girlfriend (pretending for a second that I had a girlfriend…)

michaelangelo used to break into mortuaries to cut up cadavers for study, which of course was illegal.. so bonfire do you believe that his art should have been stamped out, because he was breaking the law in quite a grotesque manner

Bonfire’s argument seems to boil down to “how dare young people live their lives or express themselves in any way other than the way’s that I personally choose to live my life”. Well, you can’t say he’s not logically consistent. A moron, but a logically consistent one.

i disagree.

Of course you do bonfire, but the great thing is less people care about what you think.

Your opinion probably stem from the fact you either have zero artistic talent, had an unfortunate run in with a permanent marker or don’t like anything kids these days are into and that goes for that darn rock and roll music too!

Just because you don’t see it as a legitimate art medium doesn’t stop it from being one, the beauty of Art is not everyone has to like it.

commissioned or not its always going to be around so lets all get used to it!

i disagree.

encouraging it or legitimising these eyesores promotes illegal acts.

stamp it out.

crush it.

discourage the impressionable youth who already ape too many wrong influences, from thinking its ‘hip’.

if they want to become artists, enrol in a life drawing class.

or perhaps blame monkey they can come around to your place and update your decor.

bonfire – everyone makes mistakes when they are younger so surely some of these guys made mistakes. big deal.. .these guys are trying to do the right thing now (and what I have said is just speculation anyway) and encourage responsible urban art, so that kids don’t make the same mistakes. This is admirable.

Personally I think commissioned grafitti can look bloody awesome.. and there needs to be more of it.

In your posts Bonfire you have very clearly indicated that you do not have high regard for graffiti artists, so am I wrong in assuming that you dislike all graffiti, whether it be commissioned or not?

Do you have such a closed view on the world that if people have done something once that should be judged by that for the rest of there life? Tonka has clearly stated that he and his mates are working positively to get there art out there and all you can do is put out inflammatory comments.

If you want to debate be able to see the other person’s opinion, if you want to argue go and find a forum full of Yo Mama jokes and flame to your hearts content!

so all the graffiti i see is ‘sanctioned’ ?

not one of his mates has ever illegally vandalised private property in pursuit of their ‘art’ ?

really ?

and you all believe this ?

i have some magic beans for sale. email for details.

I really don’t care for Bonfire’s opinion, it has seemed to transform from something logical to a fishing expedition and Tonka bit down hard.
To sum it up
Bonfire = Graffiti Bad
Tonka = Illegal Graffiti Bad

Simto – you need the cranky sod to butt heads with. It keeps me coming back.

Welcome to the club, Tonka. If you stick around, you’ll notice Bonfire’s often in a minority of one on a lot of things…

Yeah bonfire… right again matey.

You’re so wise and all knowing.

I’m done arguing with this fool.

Umm – If the centre management didn’t want the mural there, why couldn’t they just say “sorry, we’ve changed our mind”. Not brain surgery.

You’re tarring Tonka and his mates unfairly (if all he claims is true). If they stick to painting where they’re welcome – where’s the problem?

Art needn’t be popular. Plenty of artists never make any money, but stick with it because it’s what they like to do. Likewise – where’s the problem with that?

You’re arguing that all graf artists are vandals. I’d be prepared to lay odds you’ll also argue that all skaters knock down old ladies and all heroin users break into people’s houses.

There may be a pattern, but a pattern don’t make an ironclad rule.

FFS, hand the goddam wall over to a Paintball firing squad and have done with it.

‘As for acceptability… who cares what you think about art or graffiti or whatever.’

umm the private citizens whos property is defaced.

‘It is respect that keeps tags off the murals by the way. Murals/paintings done by people without the respect of the wider graf community don’t tend to last long at all.’

it’s all about you isnt it.

‘Also, if these guys had been allowed to do their work, that stuff wouldn’t be there.’

irregardless of the fact they may not want it at all.

keep it coming tonka.

If people don’t want a mural or any graf at all on their wall, then that’s cool.

It’s their property and I respect that, as do my friends, some of whom also own property.

Let me say again loud and clear… my friends (and also me for that matter) DO NOT SUPPORT ILLEGAL GRAFFITI in any way, shape or form…

JB I’m pretty sure there’s a whopping big example of that sort of big blank canvas art style hanging up in the National Gallery – probably cost a few Mill…

those people dont have a choice.

one of tonkas mates will provide some decoration.

a lovely ‘tag’ or three.

So tonka,

what are your thoughts on people who have a wall but don’t want a mural?

There we go again…

My basic point all along has been that these guys are doing it in a legal fashion – a point bonfire seems to keep missing.

As for acceptability… who cares what you think about art or graffiti or whatever. Should they also check with you about the acdeptability of their clothes, hair etc?

You’ve got a high opinion of yourself buddy.

Stick to running a cafe mate and good luck to you.

You’re a self inflated fool who really has no idea.

Thumper, in one of those other lifetimes I sometimes talk about, we set up 3 big panels at a large skatebowl, with competitions to paint them. Then after a couple of months on display, we auction them off.
I also subsidised grafitti artists to paint bits of urban infrastructure bus shelters dunny walls etc – all looked great and pulled up the “less acceptable” grafitti cold. The people who lived there loved it all – even the oldies.
Now tagging – that I can’t stand.

i could take a long relaxing dump onto a piece of masonite, spray it gold and enter it in the archibald prize as ‘stanhope’ – still doesnt make it art or me an artist.

graffiti is not art and thats why people scorn you.

they see graffiti infesting their city placed there by people who do not give a shit. they break the law. they are vandals.

why on earth should the govt fund this ? they may as well fund courses in driving away from the cops and hitting old people in cars at intersections in woden.

if some of your friends have grown out of this childish moronic behaviour and are trying to make an honest living by selling their artwork in acceptable mediums – good on them.

if they cannot make a living then perhaps there is a message – that the public does not like their art and perhaps they need to pursue another avenue of employment.

i dont understand why you need to ape another cultures form of expression. i know there arent any subway cars trundling around the act. do you talk with an american accent ?

if you feel the need to express yourself artistically do it in an acceptable and legal fashion. dont destroy public and private property.

Nah Maelinar… not fragile.

Just standing up for a mates who aren’t around to defend themselves. That’s not fragility, that’s loyalty.

The arts question was raised, so I answered. No biggie that there’s no funding, just saying how it is. The guys don’t lose sleep over it.

Normally I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at the comments, but this is a forum that is often viewed and quoted by the media.

I don’t want to see comments in tomorrow’s papers that say things like ‘Grafitti writers standing over Canberra businesses’ or crap like that.

I’ve seen rubbish printed about them for less than what’s been said today.

With that in mind it had to be refuted and quickly. The guys get enough bad press as is.

I’m fine with missed opportunities. I haven’t asked my mates about it, but I’m sure they’re fine too.

I dunno Mael, our own experiences of trying to do anything with the Canberra Centre management were universally poor.

If you need more quotes tell the quoter that’s what you’re doing FFS.

For somebody (or in defence of some other person) who makes their trade spraying walls, you’re a little bit fragile Tonka.

Not that I’m alleging that its a particularly tough trade, its just my perception of you at the moment.

Woo Hoo somebody didn’t get back on a quote. In Canberra – and lets think about the grandeur of this statement, the public service purchasing guidelines recommend at least 3 quotes. That means out of every successful purchase in Canberra, 2 people don’t get contacted back.

Everybody else in Canberra seems to get along reasonably comfortably with the knowledge that they’ve missed a golden opportunity at some stage of their lives.

Apart from you and your tagger mate.

Hi Thumper,

Don’t get me wrong… Bonfire is perfectly entitled to express an opinion, and it’s totally cool that he/anyone doesn’t like graf.. that’s cool. Whatever.

However, when he starts suggesting that my friends are standing people over, committing crimes, or being party to other people committing crimes, that’s a different matter. It becomes personal then and isn’t merely just a disagreement.

My friends are not criminals and I resent anyone suggesting otherwise. I think I’m entitled to be upset at the suggestion. They would be if they read it.

Government grants?

You have to be f**king kidding? Even though these guys work with the government to reduce illegal graf, the government does not fund graf artists to do anything other than run workshops to teach kids.

One of the guys has been painting for 25 years and has received one grant to paint boards when the hyperdome was opened. That’s it. He said that was like pulling teeth and he had to essentially paint a promo for the HD to get a penny.

That’s not arts funding.

It’s not for lack of asking either, he’s tried and tried.

Arts peak bodies laugh when you ask them for money to do graf related projects.

These guys have all done plyboard, canvass, t-shirts etc, and one is brave enough to try and make a living from it.

Think what you like about graf.. the guys already have a fair idea of how people feel… but don’t call them criminals.

Thanks Johnboy,

Am well familiar with the law and if I wasn’t confident about the nature of the comments I would have kept my mouth shut.

It doesn’t change the fact that bonfire is just taking cheap shots at people who can’t defend themselves.

It is respect that keeps tags off the murals by the way. Murals/paintings done by people without the respect of the wider graf community don’t tend to last long at all.

I think the proper version of Bonfire’s scenerio is: Bonfire offers his cafe wall to a bunch of people to paint. After agreeing to do so, and priming the wall ready for them to paint, he then ums and aahs about the last stage, and refuses to get in contact with anybody to explain what he’s up to. Somebody randomly shows up, looks at the nicely primed wall, and scrawls stuff all over it.

Yes, the guy who showed up and scrawled is a bad guy. But that doesn’t stop the Canberra Centre from also being dipshits during this saga.

Tonka, as he hasn’t identified any individuals it is hardly defamatory.

I think we all need to be a bit more careful to be clear when we are speaking in general or specifically.

On another note I always suspected the reasons murals get less tags has more to do with it being impossible to see the tag over the mural rather than “respect”, which some taggers may have, but I strongly doubt they all do.

Bonfire, accusing my friends of standover tactics is defamatory.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but don’t dare accuse my friends of criminal behaviour, and by that I mean accusing them of painting illegally or standing people over.

The canberra centre approached them in the first instance… (they wanted a mural and my friends hadn’t even considered that wall before then), and then the centre did nothing.

During mthis time, my friends worked hard to produce something that might actually change the community’s perception of the art here in Canberra.

But, nothing is done by the centre, and surprise suprise a big blank wall in the middle of the city with lots of passing traffic gets painted illegally by other people. Frankly I’m surprised that those are the only ones there.

My friends had nothing to do with that illegal painting and at no time did they either communicate with the people painting that wallm illegally or stand over the canberra centre in the manner you suggest.

What you’re saying is ridiculous and borders on the insulting, especially in light of the fact that my friends own businesses, property and are contributing members of the community.

As I’ve said, they’ve worked long and hard to be part of the solution, but bonfire, you seem to be happy to stand on your soap box and ignore this fact while defaming them.

Feel smug and self satisfied and express your opinion by all means, but please don’t defame my friends in the process of doing so, especially when they’re not here to defend themselves.

That’s just taking cheap shots.

If that’s what RA is about, then fine… that’s all good. I just had a higher opinion of RA than that.

You can’t expect people to take the site seriously as a place of debate when it merely boils down to a place where people take cheap shots and defame others in a baseless manner to make a point.

If that’s what RA is about, you’re welcome to it.

I don’t think it’s quite so sinister, bonfire. Given that the Canberra graffiti community is pretty small, I’d say that the artists would recognise the tag of someone who vandalised their work. Also – hard as you may find it to believe – taggers may respect the artwork of their grown-up brethren and leave it unvandalised.
I would say it’s more of a case of, “We like your café, bonfire. It’s centrally located and we like the coffee. By the way – while we’re here, you won’t get any grief from angry customers.” “Get out of my café. I don’t like your sort.” “Fine, we’ll go to the café up the street. Good luck with the angry customers.”

There have been a group of Graf artists negotiating with the Canberra Centre to paint this wall foa the last six months.

The centre keeps stuffing them around.

The artists concerned have given a lot of time and made a lot of effort for little gain.

First it was advertised as a competition, then it was more like a standard commission, now they’re not even returning calls.

It was actually supposed to be painted on the 12th December, but the centre won’t even do the artists of returning phone calls.

They are keen to paint it still, but the Centre needs to get it’s shit together and quickly.

Tonka – I believe you are a good friend of my brother – who goes by the name fate.

The reason that wall is black is because it was rolled in preperation for a huge production – just that CC can not get its shot together and therefore it got tagged and throw ups put on it.

Not true art.

‘Also, if these guys had been allowed to do their work, that stuff wouldn’t be there.’

sounds like standover tactics to me.

were a small group of artists, if you pay us to paint your walls, well we will make sure no one graffitis them…

hmmm lets look at this another way:

i like your cafe bonfire, it would be a shame if any harm should come to it. if you pay me and my group of friends some money we will make sure no harm comes to it…

“tarred with the same old brush”

I thought they used spray paint?

This discussion feels strangely familiar…

No offence intended to anyone whatsoever. Apologies to Bonfire if it was taken that way.

I did acknowledge that he’s entitled to his opinion and I truly believe that.

I just got upset because that opinion labelled my friends as criminals. I was merely defending them because they’re not here to do it themselves.

I just hate seeing my friends tarred with the same old brush for the 10,000th time.

Believe me, they really do hate that stuff more than the average Joe.

Rules of Riotact
1. JB is always right
2. You don’t need any knowlegde about a subject to post just an opinion
3. In the case that JB is wrong refer to rule 1.

I quite like the angles and starkness in this photo. I think it would be better in portrait orientation though to crop out the wheelie bin.

(Of course, I’d rather the starkness wasn’t in Canberra)

You’re assuming that the guys who want to paint the skatepark wall are the same kids defacing the city.

Quite wrong, and without being too aggressive about it, quite ignorant.

I don’t know the kids that defaced the skatepark, but you’re better directing your ignorance at them than the guys who are trying to be part of the solution, not the problem.

Also, if these guys had been allowed to do their work, that stuff wouldn’t be there.

For the record, just so you can know how wrong you really are about these guys, the same group has been working directly with the government over the last year to reduce the amount of vandalism in the city and also to keep kids out of the criminal justice system.

You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but in this case, you’ve just got it way wrong.

Maybe you should step off your soapbox for a little while and check things out properly before bagging on them.

These guys like tagging less than you do because it ultimately means that they have to confront this type of ignorance on an almost constant basis. They also pay taxes. They also have to deal with angry cops harrassing them over stuff other people have done while trying to have a quiet paint and a laugh with their mates on the weekend.

I’ve seen it happen.

generally recogniosed artists who throw and drop paint on canvasa dont get arrested, unlike the miscreants who deface our city.

i note that some ‘artist’ has already started ‘work’ on this skate park.

Well there have been recognised artists who have both thrown and dropped paint on canvas.

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not art.

Bonfire – I’ll take the Civic wall murals over a grubby beige wall covered in tags any day. Also – taggers tend to respect art. They will leave a wall mural alone, whereas a blank concrete/painted wall is like a flashing neon billboard saying “spray here”. I know for a fact that the business owners in the buildings that have had murals painted on them are very keen on them.

You don’t get to be the sole arbiter of public taste. I for one would be happy to see the new centre’s brutalism softened a bit – and I’d say I’m not alone.

because their is a real difference between tagging and art.

its like throwing a can of paint as opposed to dropping it.

All the centre has been asked for is some money for paint and some freedom to get in and do the job.

The group is keen to paint the best wall the city has ever seen, but these guys have no clue whatsoever.

That wall will only get worse over time with people tagging etc…

It’s what they deserve really.

We can vouch that the Canberra Centre are almost impossible to have sort of dialogue with.

There have been a group of Graf artists negotiating with the Canberra Centre to paint this wall foa the last six months.

The centre keeps stuffing them around.

The artists concerned have given a lot of time and made a lot of effort for little gain.

First it was advertised as a competition, then it was more like a standard commission, now they’re not even returning calls.

It was actually supposed to be painted on the 12th December, but the centre won’t even do the artists of returning phone calls.

They are keen to paint it still, but the Centre needs to get it’s shit together and quickly.

yea.. it looks like big city.. which canberra isn’t

I wish they’d get some professional graffiti artists to make it less concrete jungle.
If they did that in the first place you wouldn’t have the ugly stuff that’s up there now.