27 October 2025

Barnaby's bill gets more Libs' support, but his relationship with the Nats continues to collapse

| By Chris Johnson
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Barnaby Joyce

Barnaby Joyce’s future with the Nationals remains unclear, but his position on net zero is anything but. Photo: The Nationals.

Barnaby Joyce’s bill to repeal the net zero emissions targets is again being debated in parliament and again finding more support within Coalition ranks.

Liberal MP Tony Pasin from regional South Australia has thrown his weight behind the bill, saying net zero is a “costly illusion” and a “moral vanity project” that is hurting regional Australians.

“It’s easy to preach climate virtue from an inner city office. It’s much harder to pay the power bill on a farm, or keep the lights on in a small workshop in regional Australia,” Mr Pasin said while speaking on the bill.

“Everywhere I go across my electorate, people are telling me the same thing – the power bills are crippling them, businesses are closing, farmers are furious at the destruction of their country for wind and solar projects that tear up paddocks, divide neighbours and desecrate landscapes.

“These so-called renewables aren’t clean, and they’re not green. They’re future landfill industrial junk that will one day be left rusting in our fields.”

Nationals leader David Littleproud, however, told journalists in the corridors of Parliament House that his party won’t be deciding its position on net zero until it has a viable replacement for it.

“We won’t be making a decision today. This is a complex piece of policy that we, as a party room, determined together after the election that we would work through a structured process,” he said.

“Not just simply say no, which would be the easy thing to do. But we have to say, if we’re going to say no, what we are going to do.

“I get that that takes time, but I’d rather do it right and be able to look the Australian people in the eye. And we encourage Barnaby to be part of that solution …

“It would be easy just to say no and walk away and think that we’re heroes, but we’re not going to be able to convince the Australian people of an alternative policy unless we have one. Just ‘no’ is not an alternative policy.”

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Mr Joyce did not join the Nationals party room on Monday (27 October) but is still sitting with the Coalition in the chamber.

He recently announced his intention not to recontest his New England seat in the Lower House at the next federal election. This week, he informed Mr Littleproud that he won’t join party meetings in this parliamentary fortnight.

The relationship between Mr Joyce and Mr Littleproud is reportedly at its lowest ebb, and Mr Joyce has even been considering joining One Nation to advance his anti-net-zero push.

But the Nationals leader has urged Mr Joyce to stay with the party and rejoin its meetings.

“I’ve made it very clear to him that he’s welcome back at any time and he can make a constructive contribution with the rest of the party room,” Mr Littleproud said.

“He needs only to walk in and talk to the room.”

But there’s no suggestion Mr Joyce will be offered a front bench role to entice him to stay in the party.

The former Nationals leader and former Deputy Prime Minister was demoted to the back bench following this year’s federal election.

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It has also been reported that former opposition leader Peter Dutton tried to get Barnaby to quit the parliament before the May election, saying he was no longer wanted.

It is all an obvious source of frustration for Mr Joyce, as is the Coalition’s reluctance to give his anti-net-zero bill its full support.

But Mr Littleproud doesn’t appear to be buckling to pressure to reassign him to a shadow ministry.

“It’s important that we continue to invest in others who are coming through,” the Nationals leader said.

“Give them the opportunity.”

Speaking on Sky News just before lunch on Monday, Mr Joyce repeated his position against the net-zero-by-2050 target, but would not say if he would rejoin the Nationals party room if support for the target were dropped.

“My position is adamantly against net zero. I don’t want to be part of the discussion of an amelioration of net zero,” he said.

“I’m Barnaby Joyce, and I’m very proud of it… I’m a parliamentarian that’s had the incredible blessing of representing the people of New England, and I’ll continue to do what is best for the people of New England …

“I just think that you’ve got to go with a bloc of votes in the end [but] I’m not going to cut and dice into where I’m going.”

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https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/oct/29/guardian-essential-poll-liberal-voters-progressive-coalition-net-zero

Most Australians support net zero and even Liberal voters want their party to put forward more progressive rather than conservative positions.

Putting the 🤡 claims into their usual areas.

Geez, who could have seen that coming?

“Inflation shock driven by higher energy prices. Stock market falls”.

Geez, who could have seen that coming ?

Ever keen to mislead, Penfold omits that primary drivers included travel, recreation and booze. That is, people feel as though they have more, not less. Losing government rebates on energy helped those prices rise. After all, renewables are proven to be cheaper, not just a prediction, so the politically-driven rebate can be cancelled.

Penfold actively misinforms. Geez, who could have seen that coming?

Who would have thought, power bills to explode again, despite the government’s attempts to hide the details.

Barnaby has a good point – more renewables, sky-rocketing prices.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15232787/Australians-warned-prepare-HIGHER-power-bill-prices.html

The majority of our electricity still comes from coal & gas, by this “logic” more coal & gas -rocketing prices.

You can keep posting these furphies but they are transparently shallow arguments that are very easy to shoot down.

Genius stuff as always Penfold.

seao i hesitate respond because this issue involves both dollars and maths, not your strongest suits, but here goes ….

Yes the majority of our power comes from coal and gas. It’s a relief to see you write this as last month you advised that we get it 100% from renewables in the ACT. So there’s a little progress at least, well done.

However, the share of coal and gas is falling and the share of renewables is rising. These are simple facts. You’ve even pointed this out yourself. Now here’s the tricky part …. as renewables rise and coal / gas declines the price is rising. Has been doing for 20 years, so it’s pretty consistent.

Now it gets even trickier …. if more renewables means higher prices, as it does, what can we conclude ? Yes you’ve done it ! Renewables are more expensive.

It explains why renewables continue to need heavy handouts, and Bowen wants a new carbon tax. It’s all in those cost-free forecasts you posted earlier, so no doubt you’ve read them and have stumbled across Appendix C, yes ?

The problem with your weak insult peppered nonsense Penfold is that you’ve just made up the correlation between increased renewables and increased prices, it’s not actually based on any evidence and you that.

I know you’d care to be informed but renewables are the only thing keeping a lid on power prices due to our age coal fleet:

“That’s because most of our coal plants are near the end of their life. Breakdowns are more common and reliability is dropping. Building new coal plants would be expensive too. New gas would be pricier still. And the Coalition’s nuclear plan would be both very expensive and arrive sometime in the 2040s, far too late to help.”

https://theconversation.com/renewables-are-cheap-so-why-isnt-your-power-bill-falling-252391

Rubbish, Penfold, and you probably know it, given that when I explained it to you recently you were unable to find any sensible response.

If you were correct, then electricity price at night, predominantly coal-fired, would rise less over time compared with rises in daytime, dominantly renewable. In fact the nighttime price has risen over 70% faster over the last five years. Rebates for household solar energy sold to the grid dropped by nearly 40% over the same period, because more, cheaper solar means lower prices offered.

Renewables are cheaper. Most of the world knows this, which is why they are investing in renewables way ahead of fossil fuels. Industry is not as slow as Penfold.

Penfold and mathematics? He offers only absurdities like Canavan, Hanson and their ilk who do not even understand the basics of finance, economics or opportunity costs.

Congratulations seano, the link you posted explains, in nice simple words, why renewables are so expensive.

On top of the huge costs of building them (in dollars and emissions), “to connect these new sources to the grid, though, requires another 10,000 kilometres of high voltage transmission lines to add to our existing 40,000 km. These are expensive and cost blowouts have become common.”

Well done, you’ve done yourself a favour …. or as the bloke from the workwear place in Fyshwick says …. “now ya know” !

Perhaps you could now explain all this to Chris Bowen, who tells us that “the sun doesn’t send a bill”.

And as luck would have it seano, your article from the leftist group even bells the cat 😻 on renewable costs:

“At both federal and state levels, Labor ministers have made an error in claiming renewables would directly translate to lower power prices. “

Some honesty, how refreshing 😁

“Congratulations seano, the link you posted explains, in nice simple words, why renewables are so expensive.”

No it doesn’t, once again Penfold fails to read beyond the heading even after I cut and pasted the import bit for him.

““That’s because most of our coal plants are near the end of their life. Breakdowns are more common and reliability is dropping. Building new coal plants would be expensive too. New gas would be pricier still. And the Coalition’s nuclear plan would be both very expensive and arrive sometime in the 2040s, far too late to help.””

Our coal fleet is at end of life, very expensive to keep running and/or replace and also has transmission issues due to aging infrastructure.

Your simplistic cherry picking to confirm your bias fails again.

Capital Retro11:45 am 28 Oct 25

While electric generating nuclear is still banned in Australia the USA is re-opening old shuttered plants:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-10-28/google-microsoft-restarting-nuclear-plants-for-ai-power/105941378

Where is Australia going to get the huge amounts of electricity to support AI here?

Which is completely irrelevant to the economics of nuclear in Australia…unless you’re suggesting we open shuttered plants….oh right.

Capital Retro5:03 pm 28 Oct 25

I would have preferred you answered the very relevant question about where our power is going to come from Seano but then there is no answer when ther is only going to be an experiment with renewables.

Tell me again about the economics of nuclear in Australia.

CR – stop talking sense. And don’t dare mention those nuclear subs coming on board. Some people think it’s okay because they won’t come onto land. And nor will the engineers who service them, or the spare parts, or even the spent rods which hopefully we’ll store nice and safely.

Btw any idea what a shuttered plant is ? Is it a botanical thing ?

It’s not a relevant question because we don’t have power shortage issues. It also betrays how little you understand the energy market Capital because we’re a minimum of 12-15 years away from nuclear power if we break ground today….and still not legal (or economically sensible) to do that anywhere in Australia. So whack on another couple of years to get state and federal legislative changes through.

Your question is as ever meaningless we had 7.5gw of new clean energy capacity come online in 2024 we have something in the order of 6.5gw of new capacity coming online between 2026 and 2028.

Here’s the information in case you, franky and his mate Penfold decide you’d like to comment from a position of being informed:
https://cleanenergycouncil.org.au/getmedia/0cb12425-37ab-479e-9a4b-529622cc9c02/clean-energy-australia-2024.pdf

Another tedious Penfoldian non contribution, these of course increase when he is losing and not happy about it.

I did have to laugh at this though:
“Btw any idea what a shuttered plant is ? Is it a botanical thing ?”

Well I know a shuttered nuclear power plant is not something that exists in Australia so both you and capital are talking nonsense as usual.

The part about “solar and wind farms tearing up the countryside, destroying farmer’s property” (to paraphrase) is melodramatic. This reminds me of something I read “people who are easily offended (offended by wind and solar farms) are easily manipulated.” Combining the two and this concludes that the comment is most likely an attempt at pulling the heartstrings and win votes.

Penfold’s problem is that he is trying to stand in the path of myriad improvements happening all round him, all around the world, and he has no idea how to deal with this reality.

Like Joyce, Canavan, Hanson and their ilk.

It is particularly risible that Canavan’s response to a question about opportunity costs of net zero were along the lines of either they don’t exist or the only opportunity cost is the cost avoided by not doing something new.

Consider Canavan in ages past:

Jet engines instead of piston engines? We can avoid the cost of something faster, more efficient and vastly more reliable.

Screw propellors instead of paddle wheels? We can avoid that cost by keeping paddle wheels on coal-powered steamers.

Wheels on carts? What’s wrong with dragging logs around with your hands?

Step out of the path of that oncoming bus? But that involves effort which he can avoid by just standing in its path.

Ask yourself a different question Axon:

When you turn on the light switch, is your priority to be confident that the light will come on ?

If not, what’s your priority ?

When was the last time you clicked a light switch an the light didn’t come on Penfold? You’re talking nonsense again.

Goldphish, I do not spend my day making up priorities about light switches,
or water taps, or other modern storage-and-delivery technologies which experience shows work now and will into the future.

YMMV

No, just jet engines, propellers and wheels on carts 🤣🛒

I’m pretty confident that when I go home and turn on the light switch, the light will come on. If not, my priority is to change the light bulb. If that fails, my priority is to find an electrician…..I wouldn’t think too deeply into that metaphor. It’s quite simple.

What a witless reply by Penfold. It seems reality really troubles him.

No, light switches, water taps and other modern storage and delivery technologies as well. LOL

Karl – that’s good advice and good process. It was a bridge too far for Axon. But the reality is with Blackout Bowen running the show, the risk of no light coming on is increasing.

Which reminds of a Jack Gibson line from a 1990s State of Origin game. Andrew Ettingshausen got the ball and Jack declared:

“ET’s so fast he can turn the light out and get into bed before it get’s dark” ! 🙂

(apologies to Axon for the attempt at humour)

The apology was the only relevant part of Penfold’s reply, and quite necessary given the ancient joke which was itself derivative.

The rest was the usual avoid-by-nonsense.

Pengold is probably perfectly aware that he hands out false or misleading information, again.

The latest Treasury modelling was in September 2025. No wonder the goldphish has forgotten.

Pengold will be particularly enthused by three charts which show where things stand:

Chart 1.2 showing global wind and solar as a share of electricity generation 1992-2024, rocketing after 2010. Already China’s renewables electricity production exceeds that from fossils and developing countries are following fast.

Chart 1.3 showing global energy investment 2015-2025 where clean energy is climbing steeply since 2020 while fossils are in decline.

Chart 2.3 showing global solar installed capacity is not only rocketing but has always exceeded every official growth prediction ever made.

Net zero investments are being made by the private sector. There are some government incentives over time, as found in the budget, and in some cases representing allocation of existing development funding rather than new funding.

But of course Penfold does not believe in modelling, or claims it does not exist, whenever it disagrees with his steadfast beliefs in his primitive idols.

Axon – could you inform us please on what this magical net zero will cost ?

The modelling would be fascinating to read. The government can’t provide any, can you ?

A link would be wonderful. Your mate seano can’t provide a shred of evidence either.

He’s literally trying to claim there is no modelling whilst ignoring the actual modelling, he’s also trying to claim that Energex’s facebook site isn’t their’s so the information on the outages in QLD can’t be trusted (conspiracy level stuff there)…this after posting without evidence mind (hardly surprising) that wind farms caused the outages in QLD and Net Zero will cost a trillion dollars….

“risible” is a good word to describe his commentary, “comical” and “clownish” are also good words but I think the most appropriate word is just “sad”. Having to constantly make things up to make the “facts” fit your world view is just sad.

“It’s proof that Penfold (and you) cannot refute in good faith.”

That’s funny because I did provide you direct links to the treasury modelling which of course you ignored because it doesn’t fit your narrative. Yes I know you’ll try to boil the argument down to one number but that’s not how the economics across multiple different sectors of the economy works…adults know this. But feel free to point out where the modelling is wrong. We both know you won’t be cause you can’t.

Meanwhile Franky is on some bizarre whinge about links…maybe you two “intellectuals” should workshop it and decide what you want…funny stuff.

Oops ….meant to copy this nonsense from Penfold’s post
“A link would be wonderful. Your mate seano can’t provide a shred of evidence either.”

Keyboard battery fail, but at least I can replace the battery, not sure what we can do about a “mind” that says “there is no modelling” despite having a direct link to the treasury modelling post for them.

Pengold: “The modelling would be fascinating to read.”

So, read it.

I referenced the modelling and some relevant charts on the global position which wholly negate the absurdities of extreme denialists like Canavan, Joyce and Penzero.
I also pointed out that government costs are budgetted for all to read, and
that most of the work is private sector investment which is happening in any case.

Goldphish has no way of responding to facts so he pretends they do not exist.

There are too many people who, if they don’t like something will straight up deny it. Very rarely will these people listen and/or say “okay, I understand now” or even “I don’t fully agree with you but I can see you have some valid points.”

There’s lots of conflicting reports about Barnaby, including Nationals leader David Littleproud saying today Barnaby Joyce can “still make a significant contribution” to his party.

But let’s get to the real issue – Tony Pasin is 100% correct in saying “the power bills are crippling them, businesses are closing, farmers are furious at the destruction of their country for wind and solar projects that tear up paddocks, divide neighbours and desecrate landscapes.” Talk about economy wrecking policies.

Notably Brisbane is having power outages as we speak. Is this similar to South Australia a few years back when storms caused faulty windfarms to trip over, bringing down the entire network ?

Outages in Brisbane are nothing to do with generation, you’re literally making it up…as usual.
https://www.facebook.com/871270218376049/posts/1237320171771050

Wires down all over greater Brisbane caused by severe weather…now what causes severe weather I wonder?

Getting your “facts” from Facebook, lol.

As for “severe weather” well it’s been happening for millions of years and is no more severe today than ever. Well, according to scientific observations at least 😁

“Getting your “facts” from Facebook, lol.”

No, getting my facts from the energy retailer informing their customers about the situation. Protip: Being informed is far superior to making things up to confirm your biases, you should try it Penfold.

WRT severe weather, in case you ever decide on being informed you can start here:
https://www.dcceew.gov.au/climate-change/policy/climate-science/understanding-climate-change

Oh. I could have sworn the link you posted was from Facebook. Did you read it ?

The clue was in the URL: http://www.facebook.com

Once again Penfold falls straight into disingenuous pork pies when caught out….is it because you never have a leg to stand on that you constantly resort to these low tactics (yes it is)? You completely made up the story about wind farms being the cause of outages in QLD and have yet again been embarrassed.

For the adults playing at home the page, hosted on facebook is owned & operated by the QLD energy provider Energex who are dealing with the storm damage to transmission wires causing temporary outages….as Energex explains in their facebook post on their facebook page.

Seano nobody reads your insufferable links. You are as bad as Penfold. If you can’t summarise your arguments in your post then save yourself (and the reader) the effort.

It’s proof that Penfold (and you) cannot refute in good faith. I’m not about to spend my day summarising reports for you and your mate Penfold to ignore because some people are too precious to click a link.

Yes and No, every 50 – 100 years the world gets “sever weather” and climate change, but talk to anyone who has studied environmental science and they’ll tell you that this weather pattern started becoming more severe after the industrial revolution.

I think Penfold and Seano are the same people, filling their day arguing with himself.

lol Elf your non-contribution to the topic here is more Penfold than me.

Here’s the economic modelling the Nats did on the impact of removing net zero……..

The Nats are not a serious party sensibly looking at the potential impacts of their policies on the people who support them, they work for constituency of one.

Vinegar Teets2:04 pm 27 Oct 25

yeah, this guy’s so serious. “The science is settled” – unscientific. “97% of climate scientists are in agreement” – unscientific, not to mention unheard of in science, so even more unscientific. Gets his news and views from only mainstream sources that are unscientific or only as serious as him – ridiculous.

What are you talking about?

There’s no point dissecting that comment, most of it’s clear nonsense. Climate change is real and serious and needs to be urgently addressed, these are all demonstrable facts.

What’s also a demonstrable fact is that renewable energy with firming technology is the cheapest, cleanest and quickest to market form of new energy.

Meanwhile, the Nats are still making economic policy decisions based on no modelling.

Are you aware the government has released zero modelling on the costs of net zero ? Silly question, of course not.

Even worse, Jimmy recently released his carbon tax paper analysing the costs “of not implementing net zero” but refusing to tell us the costs of implementing net zero. It’s equally laughable and dishonest.

So the estimated number is $1.3 trillion to 2050. 🚀

“Are you aware the government has released zero modelling on the costs of net zero ? Silly question, of course not.”

Another Penfold porkie….lol It’s just embarrassing how little effort you put into fact checking the talking points before reposting them.

The modelling is on the treasury website.
https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-2022/media-releases/modelling-shows-orderly-path-net-zero-leads-more-jobs

“So the estimated number is $1.3 trillion to 2050. “

You spelled “made up” wrong.

Thanks for posting Jimmy’s carbon tax paper that i referenced. If you’d bothered to read it before posting, yet again, you may have learned there’s not a single cost of net zero in there. Net $zero. 🙂

But feel free to come back and show that to be incorrect. Are you related to Bowen ? He thinks if you keep repeating stuff it must come true.

“not a single cost of net zero in there. Net $zero. “

Another Pile of Penfold Porkies, you just can’t help yourself…it’s cringeworthy really.
https://treasury.gov.au/publication/p2025-700922

seano – once again you couldn’t support your claims with any evidence nor any costs.

If people can’t conduct themselves with a certain level of honesty, there’s no point engaging.

Feel free to point out where the treasury modelling is wrong Penfold. We both know you won’t because you can’t.

Well seano modelling of future scenarios can’t be proven wrong until the future, strangely enough.

But your problem is much broader than that – you clearly can’t understand the difference between modelling and costs. Oh well.

“If people can’t conduct themselves with a certain level of honesty, there’s no point engaging.”

no comment

A no comment comment Axon ? Integrity 😁

“But your problem is much broader than that – you clearly can’t understand the difference between modelling and costs.”

This from someone who constantly spouts a trillion $ figure based on no evidence what so ever, laughable.

Feel free to point out where the modelling is wrong, we both know you won’t because you can’t.

“If people can’t conduct themselves with a certain level of honesty, there’s no point engaging.”

The projection is hilarious.

Penfold, why do you ask for “modelling on the costs” then say modelling and costs are different? Most other people already know the difference between doing modelling and and the object you model. Would you like it explained?

Of course you were provided with modelling, budgets and the facts of industry (non-government) investment. Your blather is an attempt to distract from that which you can never counter.

Axon – modelling can take many forms, including costs. As a hint with costs there’s dollars involved.

One of the biggest questions around the government’s crazy energy policy is how much it’s going to cost. They refuse to put a price tag on it because they know voters would turn against it. No matter how much “modelling” we see, we never get a price tag. You can’t provide one, seano doesn’t even know what it means and the government refuses.

So it’s a really simple question – how much is net zero going to cost us ?

Penfold continues with disinformation in lieu of a response.

He has been provided with the modelling, budgets and the facts of industry (non-government) investment. This spread of data is too complex for him. His disinformation is an attempt to distract from that which he can never counter.

Where’s the cost of net-zero ?

It’s not a sensible question that can be answered by a single number given it’s a multi-sector, multi-industry issue across government and private sectors. Anyone posting one specific number is a fool.

“Anyone posting one specific number is a fool.”

That is one of the most hilarious 😂 comments ever seen. Ignorance must be such bliss 🧚‍♀️

What cost, Penfold? The data has been laid out for you, in the budget, along with modelling which shows the world-wide takeup of renewables because they are cheaper, and the higher costs of doing nothing here. The rest is investment by industry for benefit.

For someone trying to use words like “modelling” and “maths” you have a remarkable inability to read or comprehend, or mostly a no-see no-hear approach to that which you cannot handle, just like the most fervid conspiracist.

Penfold shouts at clouds.

Just a number Axon, a simple number.

You’re bouncing around more than a pinball machine so let me remind you of the question:

How much will 2050 net-zero cost Australian taxpayers ?

Seems even Bill Gates has worked out how silly the whole thing is in the lead up to COP30.

“That is one of the most hilarious 😂 comments ever seen. Ignorance must be such bliss “

OK then justify your trillion $ figure..lol….good luck with that.

As I said any one posting one specific figure is a fool.

Genius stuff as always Penfold.

The problem you have seano, once again, it a little thing called hypocrisy. You were more than happy to take the very dodgy GenCost number around the Coalition’s nuclear policy, even though it was out by over 400%, and claim nuclear was too expensive.

But when it comes to an even bigger number – the cost of net zero – you don’t seem to be bothered. $1.3 trillion is over 50% of our GDP and will wreck the economy. Just ask the workers at Tomago what they think.

And of course both numbers should form part of a national analysis of energy options for the next 50 or so years. The government, like yourself, is abdicating any responsibility but voters will not be so kind. Energy costs have risen 23.9% in the last 12 months per today’s CPI numbers. People might support net zero as a dream, but put the trillion dollar cost in there and that changes very quickly.

So here’s one net zero number again – $1.3 trillion. I don’t need to explain it because it’s up to the government to counter it. We certainly know you can’t – after all, it’s one number ! 🙂

Penfold wants a simple number in place of real data, because he pretends there is some massive cost, not because it would represent reality; Penfold does not deal in reality.

Given Penfold’s demonstrated incapability with numbers, here is one he can use as a starting point: zero.

Advise all of the costs which you claim should be added to that, Penfold. Detail the costs and who spends it.

To help you answer for the elements beyond zero, Penfold, start by reading the budget.

Of course the world comprises choices, not absolutes, so to help with that how about you state the costs of equivalent coal and nuclear power, with timelines and carbon impacts. Feel free to use the Treasury modelling I referenced, together with Gencost. Cite competent, reviewed, sources or be a waffler.

I do not expect a single number from you because, as observed by Seano, that would be stupidly unrealistic.

To help further, please also list all the companies in Australia with current or published proposals for new coal-fired or nuclear power plants here. Compare and contrast with the companies building wind farms, solar arrays, pumped hydro projects and installing household solar and storage.

“The problem you have seano, once again, it a little thing called hypocrisy. “

You said it Penfold. I pointed to the treasury modelling, which you refuse to challenge because you can’t, and you’ve come up with an entirely made up and nonsensical figure.

Hypocrisy indeed.

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