Defence contractor accused of Neo Nazi links.

aa said :

Your race/religion/sexuality are very likely to influence your decision making. Specially if the job is in defence! It’s just as likely to influence your decision as your political party/group you show allegiance to. So much for freedom of choice! Or is it “your free to choose from what we tell you to choose from”. Just like Saddam Hussein’s old voting system “do you want Saddam to be the president (YES/NO)” and hand to sign it before submitting it.

Huh? That is ridculous. What type of defence decision would be mad based on a persons sexual preference?

They just encourage them to blow themselves up.

At least Hezbollah don’t encourage their members to sport feathercuts.

BTW Im not defending her or agree with her views, Im just saying her views shouldn’t affect her employment unless she starts following them.

Your race/religion/sexuality are very likely to influence your decision making. Specially if the job is in defence! It’s just as likely to influence your decision as your political party/group you show allegiance to. So much for freedom of choice! Or is it “your free to choose from what we tell you to choose from”. Just like Saddam Hussein’s old voting system “do you want Saddam to be the president (YES/NO)” and hand to sign it before submitting it.

If that was the case, why don’t they fire people cause of their race or religion or sexuality?

Well, for one your race or religion or sexuality are not things that are likely to influence your decision making, or leave you exposed to blackmail. Your employer might be concerned if you are a deeply in the closet [sexual preference], not because of your choice, but because if you are hiding it, you might be blackmailed.

If you show allegiance to a particular group with a strong ideology at odds with acceptable behaviour in our society (NAZIs, or Country music fans), then they might be afraid that your decision making might be influenced by that, or you might share restricted information with said wackos.

I think that a persons belief shouldn’t affect your job. As long as you don’t act on them or bring it up at work that is. If that was the case, why don’t they fire people cause of their race or religion or sexuality?

Ralph said :

What if she was a member of Hezbollah?

Clearly this is a pathetic right wing troll. Keep your eye on the ball Ralph.

Ralph said :

What if she was a member of Hezbollah?

She’s not a member of Hezbollah. That’s not the issue here.

She a friend of yours?

I think most people here don’t know that Hizbollah has 2 arms. One is a political party in Lebanon, the other is a terrorist organization.

As for Mossad, there are members of it with security clearances, so I don’t see why they’d grant them (even though they are well known for conducting terrorist activities themselves, like assassinating people, etc) and not Nazis. Same thing really. They shouldn’t let either of them in. But hey, America says Mossad are good, so we HAVE to agree.

Googling for VAhealing (in Australia) brings up the following self posts by Nicole Hanley

Here: http://www.drirene.com/catbox/index.php?showtopic=28130

and

http://www.drirene.com/catbox/index.php?showtopic=22934

and some photos:

http://www.geocities.com/vahealing/Cottage1.html

http://www.geocities.com/vahealing/Cottage2.html

I think only the ESO bit of Hizbollah is a terrorist organisation in Australia.

If she was a member of Hezbollah she’d be even worse off, because in addition to job troubles she’d be facing possible criminal prosecution for “belonging to, training with, recruiting for, funding, or otherwise supporting a proscribed organisation”.

I am pretty sure that there are standard questions for a security clearance, along the lines of “are there any websites which you frequently read etc…” and what are they.

Since the organisation does not seem to be illegal in Aust, then the issue is purely if she told the truth in her clearance, or if Defences opinion of that group has changed since her clearance.

It does make you realise you can’t pick all the nutbags on appearance alone.

What if she was a member of Hezbollah?

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Our resident ‘well, some cultures are superior’ / ‘stay away from Israelis’ expert is rather quiet about this issue.

Yes where is young Emlyn this morning? Thought this would be right up her ally.

PBO said :

Probably because he was the best person for the job at the time. Having a crimminal record is a would be a hinderance but it is not the end of the world. Many people who have clearances have records for all sorts of things.

Thanks PBO, that’s interesting. I thought a serious record for a violent crime would automatically preclude you,

“I was the Butcher of Plainfield. I have a little girl’s head in my lunch bag.”
“But you write a great Ministerial. Welcome aboard! Make sure you write your name on the head – somebody’s been stealing sandwiches from the fridge.”

Nobody is that skilled that character shouldn’t be a relevant consideration. She was an administrator, not Arthur Rudolph.

Madame Workalot said :

PBO said :

ant said :

Despite being “one of this lot” ie stupid, I’m a tad puzzled as to the problem here. The only issue I can see is that if she failed to disclose that she was a member of Nazi groups during her clearance exercise (and/or reviews). Which shows that she doesn’t have a PV. Now, if she DOES have a PV, and they failed to uncover this aspect of her life, then that is a rather big issue. And even with an NV, some cursory investigation (ie a google search) should have revealed something of this.

But, if it’s not illegal, then her being a Nazi isn’t in itself a suspendable offence.

Is being a Nazi illegal?

Being a Nazi will not block you from getting a security clearance, there is a gentlemam at Defence who murdered his wife in a brutal fashion 15 years ago and he has quite a high clearance. If she disclosed it to the vetting officer then there is no problem. And who say that being a Nazi would prevent her from doing her job any better? There is probably a whole lot more going on than what has been released, it is defence remember.

If that’s the case, how did he secure a job in the APS with a criminal record? (Disclaimer – with a high clearance I’m assuming he’s relatively high in the food chain)

Probably because he was the best person for the job at the time. Having a crimminal record is a would be a hinderance but it is not the end of the world. Many people who have clearances have records for all sorts of things.

Skinhead skinhead
Puttin in the boot
Lookin for a street fight
Lookin for a root

oi oi oi oi et al

Speaking of security clearances, During my process, I divulged 5 or so years ago that I smoked quite a lot of cannabis when i was younger.

I was asked why and I stated that it was cool, fun and I was young.
I was asked when I had last smoked it, and I said 10 or so years ago.

The individual who contacted me regarding this said that my information would not effect my application, and that being accountable was what they wanted. They however said that if they foun dthis information out from a 3rd party, that would be a negative strike on my credibility.

So security clearances are not solely about finding out about all the bad things you done, but, moreso finding all about every aspect of the person, including such things as homosexual tendencies, internet pornography habits, drug use etc.

This is so you disclose every aspect of yourself during the process so no one can use your unknown homosexuality or habit for internet pornography as leverage aginst you to garner information.

If an organisation knows all the bad things you have done in your life, then no one can come to you and say “Gimmie all your OMCG stuff or ill leak to the media that you were a rampant pot head when you were in uni” or something similar.

Looks like she was active at Stormfront too – ‘account disabled’, lol.

You don’t have to be doing something illegal to be suspended from anything. Incompatible with an organisation’s goals and culture is enough. She couldn’t be a public servant if she didn’t uphold the legislated APS Values (particularly the one about recognising and utilising the diversity of the Australian community it serves), so don’t see any problem with her not being able to get APS contracts either.

PBO said :

ant said :

Despite being “one of this lot” ie stupid, I’m a tad puzzled as to the problem here. The only issue I can see is that if she failed to disclose that she was a member of Nazi groups during her clearance exercise (and/or reviews). Which shows that she doesn’t have a PV. Now, if she DOES have a PV, and they failed to uncover this aspect of her life, then that is a rather big issue. And even with an NV, some cursory investigation (ie a google search) should have revealed something of this.

But, if it’s not illegal, then her being a Nazi isn’t in itself a suspendable offence.

Is being a Nazi illegal?

Being a Nazi will not block you from getting a security clearance, there is a gentlemam at Defence who murdered his wife in a brutal fashion 15 years ago and he has quite a high clearance. If she disclosed it to the vetting officer then there is no problem. And who say that being a Nazi would prevent her from doing her job any better? There is probably a whole lot more going on than what has been released, it is defence remember.

If that’s the case, how did he secure a job in the APS with a criminal record? (Disclaimer – with a high clearance I’m assuming he’s relatively high in the food chain)

I think that she would have a good case for unfair dismissal regardless.

ant said :

Despite being “one of this lot” ie stupid, I’m a tad puzzled as to the problem here. The only issue I can see is that if she failed to disclose that she was a member of Nazi groups during her clearance exercise (and/or reviews). Which shows that she doesn’t have a PV. Now, if she DOES have a PV, and they failed to uncover this aspect of her life, then that is a rather big issue. And even with an NV, some cursory investigation (ie a google search) should have revealed something of this.

But, if it’s not illegal, then her being a Nazi isn’t in itself a suspendable offence.

Is being a Nazi illegal?

Being a Nazi will not block you from getting a security clearance, there is a gentlemam at Defence who murdered his wife in a brutal fashion 15 years ago and he has quite a high clearance. If she disclosed it to the vetting officer then there is no problem. And who say that being a Nazi would prevent her from doing her job any better? There is probably a whole lot more going on than what has been released, it is defence remember.

Our resident ‘well, some cultures are superior’ / ‘stay away from Israelis’ expert is rather quiet about this issue.

Why then is tolerance included in the factor areas?

‘Blood & Honour took its name from the motto of the Hitler Youth, Blut und Ehre. Sometimes the code 28 stands for Blood & Honour, derived from the second and eighth letters of the Latin alphabet, B and H. Blood & Honour has an armed wing called Combat 18 (C18), which has carried out racist attacks, acts of vandalism and terrorism.’

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Honour

I blame Russell Crowe.

“I 2nd that”

Good work for who ever exposed this going through that “baned web site” Wikileaks to discover this is “good work”, but posting a link to the ban website Wikileaks at the moment will earn this website $11000 fine a day from the ACMA and this fascist government, “Heil Krudd Ohell” “I made a 1933 mistake”

People with clearances are not some vanilla group of centre-right thinkers. In fact, if you look at the range of workplaces now requiring clearances, you might start to wonder a bit. A clearance does not mean you have to cleave to some careful middle of the road set of beliefs. No matter how weird it may seem to see a Nazi with a clearance, I’d want to see more than just Nazism being a problem to holding a clearance.

Granted, an active Nazi would merit closer watching than a vanilla person, but provided the Nazi declared themselves to be what they were, there should be no issue.

I think that members of ideologically extreme groups have been shown to be a bit of a security risk.

+1 Ant.

Though she’s a very stupid woman. Same goes for the rest of those pussy wannabe skinheads.

It depends too, though, on what this particular group is involved with. If they have any relation with the West Australian group that was blowing up Chinese Restaurants, then that might be an issue too.

Despite what some appear to think here, a security clearance doesn’t mean a person is marching in lockstep with a bunch of specific beliefs. the clearance means they’ve declared all their various activities, beliefs and alliegiences to the vetting people, who’ve then investigated them and concluded that everything is known and the person is not at risk of selling information, sharing information, betraying information or being blackmailed into the above.

so, that said, if being a Nazi is not illegal, the only issue I can see here with respect to the girl being suspended, is that she did not declare that she was a Nazi when undergoing her clearance/reviews.

If being a Nazi is not illegal, and she did declare it, then this is an issue.

I can’t see what the issue is with the cutlery- it’s just an upmarket version of the two-piece-plastic-handle riveted to a stainless steel core- type of thing that was popular a decade or so ago. Sales website didn’t state that it had any special characteristics, like embossed swastikas, or that it was modelled after Goering’s favourite cutlery set, or that it played the Horst Wessel song when you picked it up. So ordinary, it’s almost disappointing. Couldn’t she at least be wanting a goose-stepping salt and pepper set?

Australia’s security services have almost always had a lean to the right, probably as a result of drawing so many of their ranks from ex-military types who tend to have a bit of a blind spot where authoritarianism is concerned, and if this meets the needs of their political masters of the day, so much the better. These were the intelligence professionals of exceptional skill and judgement who focused all their attention on motley collections of lefty students, ignoring the Ustasha (pro-fascist Croats) who held regular weekend guerilla training camps, with live ammo. The idea that their organisation exists to serve the government of the day remains just that- an idea.

Despite being “one of this lot” ie stupid, I’m a tad puzzled as to the problem here. The only issue I can see is that if she failed to disclose that she was a member of Nazi groups during her clearance exercise (and/or reviews). Which shows that she doesn’t have a PV. Now, if she DOES have a PV, and they failed to uncover this aspect of her life, then that is a rather big issue. And even with an NV, some cursory investigation (ie a google search) should have revealed something of this.

But, if it’s not illegal, then her being a Nazi isn’t in itself a suspendable offence.

Is being a Nazi illegal?

And I’m sure agencies like Mossad are all over DOD like a rash.

vg said :

“what right does the employment agency/DOD have to suspend her for her views and what she does in private”

Just a tiny thing called security and potential for compromise.

If this were facebook I would click “I like this”. As it is not facebook I would just like to say well DUH.

Defence in Canberra AFAIAK is a lame duck when it comes to security. Australian Defence is compromised every single day in very many ways. Their security when it comes to inside information is a joke.

wow I sure hope SMH picked the right Nicole Hanley to print such allegations. Imagine if it’s the wrong Nicole Hanley and she tops herself over it?

But she looks like she wouldn’t hurt a fly! 🙂

JimT said :

While I don’t condone the views of the group she associates with, what right does the employment agency/DOD have to suspend her for her views and what she does in private?

If she failed to disclose it (i.e. lied) on her security clearance pack, that’d be a start.

(of course if she did disclose it, well that’s a whole new set of questions to be answered…)

Not with this lot

vg said :

“what right does the employment agency/DOD have to suspend her for her views and what she does in private”

Just a tiny thing called security and potential for compromise.

Exactly, I thought it would have been pretty obvious?

“what right does the employment agency/DOD have to suspend her for her views and what she does in private”

Just a tiny thing called security and potential for compromise.

As a Defence contractor myself I’m simply amazed at this (Defence industry is a fairly small community) and will look forward to seeing how it plays out.

Yes, and we shouldn’t discriminate against members of Al Quaeda and Jemaah Islamiyah either.

This is exactly the kind of person we want working for a corporation which ‘specialises in high technology defence products such as electronic warfare, munitions and protected mobility vehicles’ and is responsible for placing people as contractors to our Defence Department.

“While I don’t condone the views of the group she associates with, what right does the employment agency/DOD have to suspend her for her views and what she does in private?”

Have to agree with you here.

Also looks like some people still have yet to learn that the World Wide Web is exactly that, World Wide.

Blonde, blue eyes, sanguine complexion… All she needs is pig tails and she’ll make a fine member of the Bund Deutscher Mädel.

Silly girl, all she had to do was join One Nation if she wanted to show her neo-Nazi inclination but still keep her job.

On the other hand, she sends more messages in that list than most other people, looks like she both stayed with when overseas and played host to a few of their activists, and shared either a work Post Office box or one that was since passed on to another business, as well as her a phone number.

Also, she has a wierd thing for a certain type of crockery (sorry, the type will have to remain unknown).

Anyone want to give her a call and see if she’s talkative?

yeahright said :

Seems unrealistic for security checks (at fairly low clearance levels) to pick up every detail about ones personal life – but I would have thought that she would face penalties for not disclosing affiliations to this group when being vetted. Just a thought.

had you heard about a couple of DOD contractors that have been “removed” after their facebook pages made reference to exactly what they were doing in DOD?

that is a lot scarier than a skinhead wannabe.

While I don’t condone the views of the group she associates with, what right does the employment agency/DOD have to suspend her for her views and what she does in private?

Especially when the details of which were obtained through hacking into a private message system on a forum.

If you were a member of a forum group that was into the odd consentual slap ‘n’ tickle, and had PM’d another member, only to have those messages passed on to your boss – who fired you for it – surely you would have grounds for unfair dismissal.

Unfortunatly, it doesn’t appear that the group is banned in Australia, as it is in Germany and Spain – so if she has not committed an offence, I will be interested to see how this pans out with her employer. It would suck to see someone with views like that benifit financially from the situation.

Hande hoch Englander

My best comic book German

Mein Gott

Yeah, dirty Russ made being a skinhead look fun. 🙂

I blame Russell Crowe.

This shouldn’t be any more surprising or difficult to comprehend than, say, black power groups, or islamic (or other) religious fundamentalist groups etc. Presumably white people, including women, can have just the same “failings” as any other ethnic or religious group. It comes with being human (not to say all humans are like this, but in my opinion probably a very large majority would be capable if brought up or brainwashed in a particular way).

I think she’s part of the Selected Sub-Contractors (SS) Division.

Does she work in Thales Panzer division?

The comment that they have selectively quoted is mostly about how she did not become a moderator because she was -not a B&H organiser throughout 2007, but admits she was keen to be more active in 2008-.

(There’s a reasonable amount of data up there if anybody is curious)

Hi Justin, Pete and Reuben, How are you all doing? I know that Graham has replied to Justin re this, but I wanted to send you guys a quick note as well to clarify a couple of things with you all. I have also copied Justin’s PM to me at the bottom of this message to put everything ‘in perspective’.
I was not considered and nor did I consider myself the moderator of the Australian section. As one of the admin team, we oversee the entire forum and take action where appropriate. The admin team discusses offline all issues that arise on the forum and decides what should be done, and this also occurred with the Patrick O’Sullivan post. Being Australian and knowing you guys, it was thought best that I deal with his post. However it could just as easily have been Graham or one of the other admins instead of me. I personally think appointing a moderator in addition to the admin team for the Australian section completely unnecessary and overkill, since it is so small. However I still fully supported your request when it was discussed within the Admin Team, and I would like to extend my congratulations to Reuben (although I suspect he will have very little to do!!!)
For a number of reasons I was fairly quiet during 2007, however I am now in a position to be able to do more during 2008. I would like to become more active in supporting B&H Australia, and I think that with my skills and background I would have a lot to offer.
Nothing would make me happier than to see B&H Australia become stronger and larger. I would also love to see the skinhead scene in Australia return back to the size and strength of the “glory days” of when I proudly wore my feathercut.
As I understand it, the next scheduled gig is actually going to be near my neck of the woods (tentatively Sydney in May). If I can be of any assistance in helping to organise this, please let me know. I hope you all had a great Chrissie and New Years and I look forward to catching up with you guys soon for a drink (or 10 😆 )
Cheers Nicole 🙂

Seems unrealistic for security checks (at fairly low clearance levels) to pick up every detail about ones personal life – but I would have thought that she would face penalties for not disclosing affiliations to this group when being vetted. Just a thought.

Yuk yuk yuk! That’s just gross.

It is so hard for me even to think with this. What possible appeal can these groups hold for anyone? What makes a person go, “Hey, this is cool”?

If the allegations are substantiated, it would be quite worrying that the security clearance procedures missed it.

How will Godwins law work here.

Seems Defence can’t stay out of the news, although that is hardly their fault on this one. Makes you wonder though.

“Hearing/joining in with so many hundreds of people chanting Sieg Heil together is something that will stay with me forever,” she allegedly wrote.

What a bright little aryan-wannabe lass she is!

I hope she adds that comment to her CV when she goes looking for a new job.