DUI recidivism rampant

dvaey said :

groonsnout said :

Just do what they do in Michigan and 24 other US States. 3 convictions for the same felony = life in prison without parole, 3 convictions for DUI = 10 years in prison. Works.

It works? This is why the US prison population per capita is the highest in the world and growing at such a fast rate, because people are fearful of life in prison? I still believe a good alternative would be for driving penalties to be replaced with community service orders. If youre caught 15km/hr over, instead of a $200 fine which can destroy a struggling families budget, but is a drop in the ocean to an executive, make both of them perform 20 hours community service. Not everyone knows the value of one dollar, but everyone knows the value of an hour of their time. If someone chooses to repeat-offend, dont put them in the hume hilton, put them in gumboots in stromlo forrest planting trees or cleaning rubbish. Unfortunately the problem with this, is that it removes the financial benefit from the road-safety campaign the government is pushing so hard for, would the government be so keen to keep using speed cameras if they lost money but still performed a road-safety role

The other problem with the CS you outline is you are putting like with like and they will feed off each other to justify what they did and glorify it to hero status. I defiantly feel they need to be separated to think allow then to think about why they are in the situation.

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

There is only one way to deal with these “recidivist offenders”, that is to confiscate their vehicles even if its not their car.

That way the message should get through to all, even to those who let these drunk drivers drive their cars.

That is a typical comment from armchair experts. What will that achieve? Punish the rest of the family just because of one ratbag (usually with a big drinking problem)? The only way is to get them off the road and make sure they never drive (pissed) again. Address the problem, not the how!

groonsnout said :

Just do what they do in Michigan and 24 other US States. 3 convictions for the same felony = life in prison without parole, 3 convictions for DUI = 10 years in prison. Works.

It works? This is why the US prison population per capita is the highest in the world and growing at such a fast rate, because people are fearful of life in prison? I still believe a good alternative would be for driving penalties to be replaced with community service orders. If youre caught 15km/hr over, instead of a $200 fine which can destroy a struggling families budget, but is a drop in the ocean to an executive, make both of them perform 20 hours community service. Not everyone knows the value of one dollar, but everyone knows the value of an hour of their time. If someone chooses to repeat-offend, dont put them in the hume hilton, put them in gumboots in stromlo forrest planting trees or cleaning rubbish. Unfortunately the problem with this, is that it removes the financial benefit from the road-safety campaign the government is pushing so hard for, would the government be so keen to keep using speed cameras if they lost money but still performed a road-safety role?

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

There is only one way to deal with these “recidivist offenders”, that is to confiscate their vehicles even if its not their car.

That way the message should get through to all, even to those who let these drunk drivers drive their cars.

How far does this have to go? If driving a hire-car, should that be confiscated? Should teach the hire car companies a lesson, and ensure they check the entire driving record and crystal ball of everyone who comes to drive their cars.

Jim Jones said :

swissbignose said :

It won’t be taken seriously until the penalties fit the crime.

I’m an expat-Canberran in the Land of the Free and Paranoid, and where I live (Virginia), the following penalties apply:

Is there any evidence that these penalties have reduced instances of drink-driving?

JJ it would depend on how you assess the reduction of instances of drunk driving.

A) Do the penalties deter drunk driving in the wider community.
B) Are the instances of drunk driving reduced, only because repeat offending drunk drivers has been removed off the road and are now sitting in jail.

At the end of the day it should be about removing the risk off the road and reducing the instances of people being killed. You abide by the law and if you don’t, you rescind your right to be a part of the community.

FFS! Zero Tolerance!
0-15 KMH over the posted speed limit – kneecapping
15-30 KMH over the posted speed limit – death by gunshot
>30 KMH – over the posted speed limit – star wars death ray from space

Parking in a disabled zone – state sanctioned disablement – offenders then able to use disabled parking

Where will it end?

swissbignose said :

It won’t be taken seriously until the penalties fit the crime.

I’m an expat-Canberran in the Land of the Free and Paranoid, and where I live (Virginia), the following penalties apply:

Is there any evidence that these penalties have reduced instances of drink-driving?

It won’t be taken seriously until the penalties fit the crime.

I’m an expat-Canberran in the Land of the Free and Paranoid, and where I live (Virginia), the following penalties apply:

1st Drunk Driving Conviction

Jail – 5 Days Minimum (If Passenger under 18 in Vehicle)
Jail – 5 Days (If Blood Alcohol Level .15-.20)
Jail – 10 Days (If Blood Alcohol Level above .20)
Fine – $250 Minimum
Fine – Add $500-$1,000 (If Passenger under 18 in Vehicle)
License Suspension – 1 Year
Ignition Interlock Device Required (If Blood Alcohol Level .15 or Above)
Complete Alcohol Safety Action Program

2nd Drunk Driving Conviction

Jail – From 20 Days Minimum to 1 Year (If Less Than 5 Years of Previous)
Jail – Add 5 Days Minimum (If Passenger under 18 in Vehicle)

Second Offense within 5-10 Years of Previous

Jail – 10 Days Minimum to 1 Month
Jail – Add 10 Days (If Blood Alcohol Level .15-.20)
Jail – Add 20 Days (If Blood Alcohol Level above .20)
Jail – Add 5 Days Minimum (If Passenger under 18 in Vehicle)
License Suspension – 3 Years
Ignition Interlock Device Required Upon Reinstatement
Fine – $500 Minimum
Fine – $500-$1,000 Additional (If Passenger under 18 in Vehicle)
Fine – $50 Trauma Center Fund
Complete Alcohol Safety Action Program

3rd Drunk Driving Conviction

Jail – 6 Months Minimum (If Within 5 Years of Previous)
Jail – 90 Days Minimum (If Within 10 Years of Previous)
Jail – Add 5 Days Minimum Additional (If Passenger under 18 in Vehicle)
Fine – $1,000 Minimum
Fine – $50 Trauma Center Fund
License Suspension – Indefinitely
May Petition Court after 5 Years
Ignition Interlock Device Required (If License Reinstated)

Naturally, incarceration poses its own problems. If I remember correctly, the ACT used to jail people over non-payment of parking fines (serious non-payment), until a guy was killed in a NSW jail (this obviously before the AMC opening) serving a four or five day sentence for non-payment of a lot of parking fines (or it could have been speeding).

There’s no simple answer, but I support the confiscation of the vehicle as a measure.

Drink drivers should never be given a second or third chance. As a driver with over 12 years experience I have never come close to drink driving. The day after a big night I don’t drive for another 24 hours as I know my Blood Alcohol level is not zero, even when I’m falling over drunk I refuse to get into a car being driven by someone who has had a few drinks.

Zero tolerance should be the accepted norm by our police force and courts.

For your first offence I would propose:

Confiscation of your vehicle.
Loss of license for 6 months
Heavy fine
6 months weekend detention.

Second offence:
Loss of license requiring a resit of the exam.
Confiscation of your vehicle
Heavy fine
Minimum of 12 months full time imprisonment. With the length of imprisonment scaled based on your Blood Alcohol Level.

There is NO excuse for drink driving especially when you risk the lives of innocent motorists, passengers, pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists.

facet said :

You could steal a bike, apparently police are not really interested in catching bike thieves and bike owners are to blame unless they buy a $150 bike lock.

Completely off topic, but anyway…how do you propose they catch bike thieves? Presumably you’re talking about the thread from the other day. Tell us how you’d do it, detective.

Just do what they do in Michigan and 24 other US States. 3 convictions for the same felony = life in prison without parole, 3 convictions for DUI = 10 years in prison. Works.

You could steal a bike, apparently police are not really interested in catching bike thieves and bike owners are to blame unless they buy a $150 bike lock.

maybe they should just increase the penalties for your 2nd / 3rd offences. After the 3rd you should not be able to drive a car for 5 years.

If you do you get 60 days jailtime… imo.
pitty we have a full jail system…

“The message is simple, if you don’t drink and drive, the risk of being involved in a serious or fatal collision is dramatically reduced. But if you do break the road rules, ACT Policing will catch you. You will then appear before a compassionate and thoughtful judge and possibly get a slap on the wrist fine which you may choose not to pay off, or simply enter into a long term repayment option due to your sad financial circumstances. You will also likely have your licence suspended for a period of time, but that’s ok too, as a focus on easy speed camera revenue rather than effective policing of roads for other infringements make it worth rolling the dice. And if you do get caught, it will be the same pointless process all over again.”

Edited for truth.

There is only one way to deal with these “recidivist offenders”, that is to confiscate their vehicles even if its not their car. That way the message should get through to all, even to those who let these drunk drivers drive their cars.