Lib calls for action to improve safety around Mt Taylor as popularity booms

wildturkeycanoe said :

Is this really about parking on Mt. Taylor or the need for a roundabout? If the latter, why not go all the way and whack one on Livingston, Inkster and Colquhoun and reduce the speed limit to 50? I’m sure it’ll please the bushwalkers, but may not be the fancy of all those thousands of commuters.
What is the big appeal of parking at Mannheim instead of the allocated parking on the other side of Mt. Taylor? If everyone started parking on the verge of William Hovell to access the Arboretum, despite there being allocated parking at the top, would not the government start moving people along?

You have created a number of strawman’s here.

Livingston, Inkster and Colquhoun have dedicated slip lanes and/or better vision for motorists making them easier intersections to navigate than the Mannheim exit onto Sulwood. These intersections are not even close to having the same level of need.

Why should a Tuggeranong resident wanting to walk up Mt Taylor drive 8km (according to Google Maps) to the other side of Mt Taylor for a dedicated car parking space. Your Arboretum example up a one access way road to a car park is hardly a similar situation.

The massive increase in the number of people parking in this area and the number of hits and near misses in the area have created the need for an appropriate solution. I am surprised such an obvious problem has people bringing up all sorts of real and imagined reasons why this area doesn’t deserve attention and a solution to a dangerous problem.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/dir/-35.3797431,149.0761813/-35.3796871,149.0762248/-35.3650908,149.0720865/@-35.3761951,149.0687878,2730m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0

Is this really about parking on Mt. Taylor or the need for a roundabout? If the latter, why not go all the way and whack one on Livingston, Inkster and Colquhoun and reduce the speed limit to 50? I’m sure it’ll please the bushwalkers, but may not be the fancy of all those thousands of commuters.
What is the big appeal of parking at Mannheim instead of the allocated parking on the other side of Mt. Taylor? If everyone started parking on the verge of William Hovell to access the Arboretum, despite there being allocated parking at the top, would not the government start moving people along?

Anyone saying there are only a few cars or the intersection is not busy or dangerous is kidding themselves and kidding Riotact readers,

After posting my views yesterday before lunch, I thought I should actually take an evidence approach and drive to Sulwood Drive / Mannheim St, count the cars and take photos. Just to see if peoples claims about there being less than 10 cars 90% of the time were true.

There were 43 Cars parked on the dirt area that people have been discussing and also an additional four cars parked on Manheim St and a further 3 on the other side of the road (plus a few in an off street that I suspect were also up Mt Taylor)

https://imageshack.com/i/pnaa2Z4kj

I also include a photo my wife took later in the afternoon with over 30 totally different cars doing the walk. When I drove to work this morning at 10am, I counted 21 cars (and that’s on a workday out of work hours).

I also challenge anyone to turn right out of Mannheim St onto Sulwood Drive in peak hour and anyone who can honestly say that it is an easy and safe turn, with plenty of vision up and down the road and plenty of safe merging area is crazy.

Also for those saying Sulwood doesn’t warrant long promised duplication and doesn’t get that many cars, Multi Lane main Road Coulter Dr in Belconnen had an ACT Government traffic volume count on Friday 3 Aug 2012 at two different points of the road with 4,100 and 4,250 cars counted over the day.

Sulwood Drive Kambah had a count done on Sunday 28 Feb 2010 at two different points of the road with 5,200 and 5,350 cars counted. Note also Sunday traffic much quieter than weekday.

I use Sulwood Drive quite frequently and agree that it is a good idea to improve the parking and access arrangements for Mount Taylor. I think at the very least the car park and access should be sealed. At the moment, vehicles leaving the dirt car park throw up dust clouds that cause vision problems for cars travelling on Sulwood Drive.

I agree that a roundabout seems to be a bit of overkill. Vision is good in all directions. Perhaps bollards in strategic locations would stop people from driving across Sulwood Drive.

While Sulwood Drive is what I would call an arterial road, I have never felt that traffic density warrant duplication (yet).

Ommis said :

Really? There is good vision for hundreds of metres in either direction from the car parking area on Sulwood Dve. If there are nearly accidents there then it is most likely due to stupidity and impatience.
I have cycled along Sulwood Dve hundreds of times as my commute to work and there is a verge/bike lane virtually all the way. No problem there either.
What are the actual statistics on the number of crashes at this site? There are probably several places in Canberra more in need of some road works.
There is less than ten cars there 90% of the time. Not 10-40.

Your claims absolutely false. There are not hundreds of meters of good vision in that area at all. It is right on a fast bend with cars entering and exiting in all directions and trees obscuring the view from the Western side. https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-35.3801053,149.0769829,17.66z

You need to drive up and attempt a right turn out of Mannheim and see how good the vision is.

As for accidents raw numbers don’t tell the true picture, but it’s the high risk of ‘serious crash’ that can occur on a single lane main road. Based on the last released data back to 2013 there were 43 Injury or Damage level accidents on Sulwood (between the intersections of Inkster, Mannheim, Livingston, Sainsbury, Gaunson).

I note that the disaster zone of one of the busiest suburban roads in Canberra ‘Sternberg Cres Wanniassa’ has finally just had roundabouts and traffic lights put in that now may take it off the dubious honor of actually appearing twice is the top 20 worst roads list. http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/canberras-worst-roads-for-crashes-revealed-20150210-13as5d.html

What I do agree with you however, is that there is mostly a verge for cycling along Sulwood Drive, the issue is that in small parts of the Sulwood verge the section for cyclists almost disappears or has severe damage thus suddenly and unexpectedly forcing less experienced cyclists onto a skinny bendy road with cars doing 80kmh.

Ommis said :

Really? There is good vision for hundreds of metres in either direction from the car parking area on Sulwood Dve. If there are nearly accidents there then it is most likely due to stupidity and impatience.
I have cycled along Sulwood Dve hundreds of times as my commute to work and there is a verge/bike lane virtually all the way. No problem there either.
What are the actual statistics on the number of crashes at this site? There are probably several places in Canberra more in need of some road works.
There is less than ten cars there 90% of the time. Not 10-40.

The issue isn’t getting onto the road, the issue is having to nearly stop to get off the road and onto the dirt shoulder. It’s an 80km/hr road and people breaking when there is no defined entry/exit points causes dangerous situations.

And that’s not even starting on the idiots that cross the double lines from the other side of the road.

Really? There is good vision for hundreds of metres in either direction from the car parking area on Sulwood Dve. If there are nearly accidents there then it is most likely due to stupidity and impatience.
I have cycled along Sulwood Dve hundreds of times as my commute to work and there is a verge/bike lane virtually all the way. No problem there either.
What are the actual statistics on the number of crashes at this site? There are probably several places in Canberra more in need of some road works.
There is less than ten cars there 90% of the time. Not 10-40.

Crazed_Loner said :

There’s always one – one who has to get into an anti-bicycle rant when it’s nothing to do with the current thread……Find an appropriate outlet.

From the original article – “safe crossings for pedestrians and cyclists”;
“Investigate a dedicated bike lane on Sulwood Drive”
So it wasn’t I that brought it up if you’d bothered to read the whole thing. Bicycle lane this, roundabout that! It seems the motorists trying to get to Mt. Taylor are desperate to increase traffic congestion. Also, if they are going there for exercise, why complain about going the extra mile to access existing parking facilities?

If RiotAct isn’t an appropriate forum for debate, can you please suggest an alternative location for me to bang my head against?

wildturkeycanoe said :

If the mandate for installing bicycle lanes is simply the volume of pedal traffic and the public’s impression of rider safety, should not areas like the Cotter Road and Brindabella Road be placed at the front of the queue for bicycle lane construction? In terms of risk and number of users, it is a much higher priority and has been an issue for far longer than Mt. Taylor. And please don’t go on about budgetary restraints, because this government has blinkers on when it makes financial decisions about bicycle infrastructure, evidenced by the hundreds of kilometres of seldom used bicycle lanes and paths built at taxpayers expense.

There’s always one – one who has to get into an anti-bicycle rant when it’s nothing to do with the current thread. It sounds like you might have a little bit of an obsession going there. Cyclists beware! If you want to talk about wastes of money then perhaps you could start with the tram but that also wouldn’t be relevant here. Find an appropriate outlet.

tim_c said :

chewy14 said :

But no, you’re right. Instead of creating a car park where people would actually use it, they should drive another 3km’s to the other car park. It would be much more efficient…..

It would be more efficient than interrupting the traffic continuing along Sulwood Dr with yet another roundabout.

I’m struggling to see the call for a roundabout in the article? It could easily be a slip lane from Sulwood.

But even if it was a roundabout, how exactly would it be more efficient to expect people to drive 3km’s further to the existing carpark on Athllon? A roundabout would seem to be a sensible option that could not only provide entry to this recreational area but also reduce the accident hazards of cars trying to turn in and out of Mannheim St.

Great idea, they should put in a roundabout.