26 June 2013

Rudd returned as leader of parliamentary Labor Party. PM? Maybe?

26 June 2013 | johnboy

The returning officer has spoken and Kevin Rudd is now the leader of the Labor Party.

Final margin 57 to 45. (Bill Shorten decisive)

What happens next in the parliament will be exciting but the public servants of Canberra are well advised to tread very, very carefully.

There’s going to have to be a god almighty reshuffle for a Government that might not make it through tomorrow, let alone an election sooner than later.

UPDATE: It appears Tony Abbott is (for now) holding off process games in favour of the main event on polling day.

[Photo via Keep Calm Abbott is not PM]

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Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd3:37 pm 29 Jun 13

Darkfallz and mysteryman, maybe educate yourselves about the global financial situations before proving your ignorance.

And leave the jones sound bites at the door please.

Cheers.

poetix3:17 pm 29 Jun 13

triffid said :

…..epitomolgical….

Hey, Billy-Bob, put down that banjo. This here fellow who thinks he’s Michel Foucault can’t even spell epistemological!

Well you can call the devil Derrida, Jeb. I ain’t seen nothing like that this side of Queanbeyan in many a long year.

DrKoresh12:53 pm 29 Jun 13

triffid said :

Whatever gets you through the night, howeph. If you need an intellectual wheelchair ramp and a hand rail to start get a handle on a proposition, then go for it. I must admit, I did ponder at the time if I was typing slowly enough.

I was merely trying to make an effort to add to collective knowledge and explain some ‘why’s’ (using one example). It was an invitation to RA-ers to think a little deeper. But, I guess you can only splash in the puddles. That’s fine, but you’ll miss out on critical nuances if that’s your only party trick.

Or are you one of those 23 year old advisors, who have done so much damage to policy development in this nation? The reduction of knowledge to the simplistic in a one-page Brief of dot-points? Back to uni for you and, this time, try and read some Scarbrough, or Reynolds, or any of the political sociologists who have examined the field in Westminster / Washminister democracies.

Feel free to plug the above into your Babel Fish with it set on ‘simplistic’ as well.

Being confrontational and obtuse doesn’t make you an intellectual behemoth, just a pompous wind-bag with a degree in the softest “science” there is.

howeph11:53 am 29 Jun 13

triffid said :

Feel free to plug the above into your Babel Fish with it set on ‘simplistic’ as well.

Hi Triffid,

Actually I have a bone to pick with you over that one.

It was while feeding on your “Those announcements represented something — mainly in a semiotic sense — that ‘jarred’ with their ideological / ontological / epitomolgical predisposition. ” that my poor Babel fish died from a stress induced internal hemorrhage.

This is quite remarkable because it has been clearly demonstrated by Ford Prefect and Arthur Dent that Babel fish are hardy creatures, being able to translate Vogon poetry (the third worst poetry in the Universe) with ease.

triffid7:52 am 29 Jun 13

Darkfalz and Mysterman . . . exactly. What remains for students of this stuff is to understand why that plays out in the mind of the electorate the way it does.

It’s like polling figures. Yes, they give an indication of how the electorate will vote and of what a possible election outcome will be. But, those numbers, of themselves, tell you precious little as to why those numbers are the way they are. (In crude terms, it’s ‘ideology’).

rosscoact7:52 am 29 Jun 13

It was quite refreshing to hear the howls of outrage from the opposition as they were called by Rudd on the witless ‘policy’ positions they’ve been taking.

I hope the election is delayed as long as possible, much of the shadow front bench are dunces who need a shake up and to be made to think about what they are saying.

triffid7:45 am 29 Jun 13

Whatever gets you through the night, howeph. If you need an intellectual wheelchair ramp and a hand rail to start get a handle on a proposition, then go for it. I must admit, I did ponder at the time if I was typing slowly enough.

I was merely trying to make an effort to add to collective knowledge and explain some ‘why’s’ (using one example). It was an invitation to RA-ers to think a little deeper. But, I guess you can only splash in the puddles. That’s fine, but you’ll miss out on critical nuances if that’s your only party trick.

Or are you one of those 23 year old advisors, who have done so much damage to policy development in this nation? The reduction of knowledge to the simplistic in a one-page Brief of dot-points? Back to uni for you and, this time, try and read some Scarbrough, or Reynolds, or any of the political sociologists who have examined the field in Westminster / Washminister democracies.

Feel free to plug the above into your Babel Fish with it set on ‘simplistic’ as well.

niknak9:15 pm 28 Jun 13

Countries get the governments/leaders they deserve, according to philospher/scholar Joseph de Maistre.

And, although I’m far less learned, I agree.

Rudd is a narcissistic, self absorbed lunatic. Sadly, this is emblematic of the polling majority, many of whom are uneduacated, unlearned and focussed on fat cheques (underwritten by the taxes of the few) and empty cheesey sound bites.

As a life-long Labor voter, I give up. The bogan majority has eaten its own young and now deserves everything it gets.

CraigT6:23 pm 28 Jun 13

Darkfalz said :

I’m convinced that Rudd bogans all think the $900 cheques are coming back. I had people posting words to that effect on my Facebook yesterday. They’re that ignorant of the state of the economy that all started with Rudd’s irresponsible cash splashes in 2008. But that move has bought him so much goodwill with the great unwashed that he’s never completely lost his sheen.

What worries me is that people under the influence of such mind-numbingly wrong information qualify to participate in elections to choose our next government.

Here are a few facts Alan Jones has neglected to mention to you:
– the $900 checques were *internationally* recognised (with hindsight) as part of the Australian government’s world-leadingly successful response to the GFC
– Australia’s foreign debt isn’t just minute compared with other 1st-world nations, but our deficit is running *below* CPI, meaning it isn’t even a deficit in real terms
– The pink batts scheme was hugely successful, making a concrete difference to Australia’s energy budget, AND, houses it affected were *less likely* to experience house fires than houses having insulation installed outside the scheme
– The carbon tax resulted in increased profits for electricity-generating companies AND reduced CO2 emissions.

I could go on, but I think I will summarise the rest thusly: If Abbot or any of his fellow-goblins’ lips are moving, they are lying.

Mysteryman5:47 pm 28 Jun 13

Darkfalz said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummm, you are a Alan jones listener, right?

Your supposed irresponsible cash splashes where whatever kept Australia out of recession.

Also, can you give actual reasons why Australians supposedly hate Gillard.(if you use the term juliar you are automatically banned from the interwebs).

I don’t listen to Alan Jones. 300bn worth of debt (not just spending, but spending beyond intake) was not required to prevent recession. We should have run increasingly small, manageable deficits. We went into the GFC on the back of a decade of surpluses and zero government debt. The increase in debt since has been massive. Calling it “small” because it’s been building for 5 years and not 20+ like USA/Europe is stupid. It is the rate of increase and obvious unsustainability that is the problem – particularly as the resources boom winds down.

Gillard has a clear tin ear for politics. She made many blunders and refused to acknowledge any of them, even beyond the normal spin you expect from politicians. She broke several promises (including the carbon tax one) and similarly didn’t apologise and even pretended for some time she never lied. Her condescending, question avoiding manner in QT always irritated me. She refused to take any responsibility for her role on the AWU scandal, or even admit poor judgement, whilst metering it out to journalists who brought it up or other players involved. She hyped up a fake gender war again and again even when it started backfiring, going all the way to the US style “they’ll take away your abortion rights” levels of ridiculousness. I don’t think calling people ugly, poodle, misogynist, old horse, simpleton and so on are becoming of the parliament or prime minister. On top of this she frequently accused others of personal attacks. A nasty piece of work all around.

That’s a pretty accurate assessment, IMO. I’m glad you touched on her performances during QT. The contrast between her willful refusal to provide even a semblance of an answer, instead choosing to insult and ridicule, and Rudd’s performance yesterday in which he did (for the most part) provide answers and seek to highlight differences between government and opposition policy was both refreshing and astounding. She was the greatest purveyor of “reckless negativity” (a phrase she was ironically fond of) in the House, with the possible exception of Swan. The two of them definitely contributed their fair share towards lowering the overall tone of discourse in the chamber.

Darkfalz5:18 pm 28 Jun 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummm, you are a Alan jones listener, right?

Your supposed irresponsible cash splashes where whatever kept Australia out of recession.

Also, can you give actual reasons why Australians supposedly hate Gillard.(if you use the term juliar you are automatically banned from the interwebs).

I don’t listen to Alan Jones. 300bn worth of debt (not just spending, but spending beyond intake) was not required to prevent recession. We should have run increasingly small, manageable deficits. We went into the GFC on the back of a decade of surpluses and zero government debt. The increase in debt since has been massive. Calling it “small” because it’s been building for 5 years and not 20+ like USA/Europe is stupid. It is the rate of increase and obvious unsustainability that is the problem – particularly as the resources boom winds down.

Gillard has a clear tin ear for politics. She made many blunders and refused to acknowledge any of them, even beyond the normal spin you expect from politicians. She broke several promises (including the carbon tax one) and similarly didn’t apologise and even pretended for some time she never lied. Her condescending, question avoiding manner in QT always irritated me. She refused to take any responsibility for her role on the AWU scandal, or even admit poor judgement, whilst metering it out to journalists who brought it up or other players involved. She hyped up a fake gender war again and again even when it started backfiring, going all the way to the US style “they’ll take away your abortion rights” levels of ridiculousness. I don’t think calling people ugly, poodle, misogynist, old horse, simpleton and so on are becoming of the parliament or prime minister. On top of this she frequently accused others of personal attacks. A nasty piece of work all around.

Rudd is a complete wanker. Narcissist, egotist, psychopath are all accurate descriptions of this guy. I’ve never seen anyone quite so sanctimonious, or to use so many words to say so little. I like a plain speaker that speaks their mind, even when it’s not particularly popular, and whose actions are consistent with their values, not an actor playing the part of statesman (and one with unlimited money to hand out).

I still think the Libs will win, not quite as comfortably but considering the changes in rhetoric on asylum seekers and the carbon tax I suspect the the current incarnation of the Labor party will be less resistive to the changes the Libs will push through. Could be wishful thinking but we will see. I’ll be furious if the election is pushed out any later than September 14 though.

howeph12:26 pm 28 Jun 13

Translation:

triffid said :

I reckon I can, and in terms consistent with the work of Elinor Scarbrough (and the scant few other surviving political sociologists). For instance, north of the Rio Tweed, there were many people — who might be regarded as Labor ‘sympathisers’, or who were more predisposed to voting in that manner — who regarded the Gillard takeover as a demonstration of reprehensable behaviour. Those same people were prone — in recent weeks — to point out that Rudd’s primary polling rarely dragged below a 41 average, while Gillard’s remained moribund and flat-lined at 33 for well over two years.They view Rudd’s ‘reinstatement’ as the ‘righting of a gross wrong / injustice.’

Many Queenslanders didn’t like the way Gillard replaced Rudd, a fellow Queenslander. Rudd’s reinstatement fixed that.

triffid said :

They were put on the back foot from the outset and regarded many of her supporters in Cabinet with similar derision. (As an aside, it is reasonable to entertain the notion that, as Treasurer, Swan faced a real battle in Lilley. Now, as simply Wayne from Clayfield, the Labor incumbent, he’ll probably be over the line safely).

They [Queenslanders] also didn’t like most of her Cabinet misters either for the same reason. Wayne Swan (also a Queenslander) should find it easier to get elected again now.

triffid said :

The policy pronouncements of Gillard didn’t resonate with those people either. Those announcements represented something — mainly in a semiotic sense — that ‘jarred’ with their ideological / ontological / epitomolgical predisposition. The affect of which serves to ‘dial up’ the effects of cognitve dissonance. Everything that thus came from the Government was rejected until, finally, they even stopped listening.

Nobody can give any reasons why people didn’t like the Gillard government’s policy announcements. They just rejected everything and stopped listening.

triffid said :

Did they hate her? It’s a strong word, but many of the peolple I interact with in those parts did and with a passion. Do they have sympathy for her now? Funnily enough, yes.

They hated her. Now they don’t.

triffid said :

Not a complete answer, ‘cos that’d be a PhD. And a dull one at that. Because it’d need to be couched in the concepts of ideology in a reference frame that would befuddle those who’s only understanding of that term is linear.

No body knows why they hatted her so much, but you could use some really big words to make it sound like you do.

triffid said :

And while I these days merely sit back and observe the machinations of politics (being an operative is a mug’s game I decided), the thing that drives me insane is the general lack of sophistication of thought by most observers of that game, who have little actual qualification (mine’s in Poli Sci and stil, only a decade old) knowledge, experience, history (five decades and counting), memory and, thus, wisdom to make a comment (I’m looking at you, you 23 year old advisors who can’t be told anything and have experienced even less).

It’s all to hard.

triffid11:03 am 28 Jun 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Also, can you give actual reasons why Australians supposedly hate Gillard.(if you use the term juliar you are automatically banned from the interwebs).

I reckon I can, and in terms consistent with the work of Elinor Scarbrough (and the scant few other surviving political sociologists). For instance, north of the Rio Tweed, there were many people — who might be regarded as Labor ‘sympathisers’, or who were more predisposed to voting in that manner — who regarded the Gillard takeover as a demonstration of reprehensable behaviour. Those same people were prone — in recent weeks — to point out that Rudd’s primary polling rarely dragged below a 41 average, while Gillard’s remained moribund and flat-lined at 33 for well over two years.They view Rudd’s ‘reinstatement’ as the ‘righting of a gross wrong / injustice.’

They were put on the back foot from the outset and regarded many of her supporters in Cabinet with similar derision. (As an aside, it is reasonable to entertain the notion that, as Treasurer, Swan faced a real battle in Lilley. Now, as simply Wayne from Clayfield, the Labor incumbent, he’ll probably be over the line safely).

The policy pronouncements of Gillard didn’t resonate with those people either. Those announcements represented something — mainly in a semiotic sense — that ‘jarred’ with their ideological / ontological / epitomolgical predisposition. The affect of which serves to ‘dial up’ the effects of cognitve dissonance. Everything that thus came from the Government was rejected until, finally, they even stopped listening.

Did they hate her? It’s a strong word, but many of the peolple I interact with in those parts did and with a passion. Do they have sympathy for her now? Funnily enough, yes.

Not a complete answer, ‘cos that’d be a PhD. And a dull one at that. Because it’d need to be couched in the concepts of ideology in a reference frame that would befuddle those who’s only understanding of that term is linear.

And while I these days merely sit back and observe the machinations of politics (being an operative is a mug’s game I decided), the thing that drives me insane is the general lack of sophistication of thought by most observers of that game, who have little actual qualification (mine’s in Poli Sci and stil, only a decade old) knowledge, experience, history (five decades and counting), memory and, thus, wisdom to make a comment (I’m looking at you, you 23 year old advisors who can’t be told anything and have experienced even less).

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