40 zones extending to Woden and Gungahlin town centres [With poll]

Watson said :

Maybe they could temporarily up the speed to 100kph for a year, and keeps stats on how many pedestrians die, then lower it to 60kph for a year, and again take note of the fatalities and then they could implement the 40kph and compare the figures after a year? You’d have to make sure that drivers would actually drive at those speed limits though, to make sure that they do hit the pedestrians that are supposed to get hit and don’t mess up the stats. Because not being able to reliably measure these differences would be dreadful.

I think thats a great idea. I love the darwin theory and this should work quite well.

bitzermaloney said :

. (Do they realise how retarded they look?)

Does anyone?

Seems like a complete waste of time and money given you can’t go 40 through the Woden area.

Next will be Bunda St in Civic. Personally I love see the tourists during school holidays trying to work out how to get out of there. Though 11pm at night it probably should be a 40k minimum to move along the doof doof lowered lancer’s that think they are the beez knees. (Do they realise how retarded they look?)

dpm said :

m_ratt said :

So, what is the metric to test the effectiveness of the trial? Reduction in pedestrian deaths?

Seems like the only valid metric given the research results cited: “Research indicated that the introduction of a 40km/h speed zone can significantly reduce the risk of death for vulnerable road users. For example, a 10km/h decrease in speed can reduce the risk of death for pedestrians and cyclists by over 50 percent.”

No mention of any other intended/expected benefits…(how many pedestrians have been killed in Woden/Gungahlin? 50% of zero is still zero.)

More speed humps though.. Woohoo. Gotta be better than the new speed humps on Flinders Way though – 60km/h zone with new speed humps each with a recommended speed of 20km/h, but safe to do at 60km/h in a wide enough car. What’s the point except to inconvenience small car drivers?

Sure, it may not be safe to do more than a crawl on a number of those streets at certain times, but people have worked that out already (and those that haven’t won’t pay attention to this anyway). No need for 24/7 speed limit reduction though.

I’ve got no problem with this except, as m_ratt has mentioned, it seems to be based on research into pedestrian safety as various speeds, and is not linked to real data on how many people are injured here. Are these blackspots for pedestrians?
What they should have presented was the problem (the number of injuries etc on those roads – not presented), the research (as sited), the proposed trial details (presented), and how they are going to evaluate its effectiveness (not presented).
It’s probably a good idea, the whole thing just looks a bit sloppy really – kinda like they are randomly picking causes to crusade for.

Maybe they could temporarily up the speed to 100kph for a year, and keeps stats on how many pedestrians die, then lower it to 60kph for a year, and again take note of the fatalities and then they could implement the 40kph and compare the figures after a year? You’d have to make sure that drivers would actually drive at those speed limits though, to make sure that they do hit the pedestrians that are supposed to get hit and don’t mess up the stats. Because not being able to reliably measure these differences would be dreadful.

toadstool said :

While on the subject of speed limits, why has Mugga Lane been reduced from 80km/h to 70km/h between the pound and the tip?

Perhaps the number of roadside memorials are a hint

I-filed said :

astrojax said :

Chief Ten Beers said :

Australia. World’s biggest Nanny State.

well, off ya toddle, then, to colombia or ethiopia or the democratic republic of congo or some other blissful utopia to indulge some anarchy… let us know how you go.

Actually Addis Ababa, the Ethiopian capital, has a 40kph speed limit within the city limits …

bugger.

m_ratt said :

So, what is the metric to test the effectiveness of the trial? Reduction in pedestrian deaths?

Seems like the only valid metric given the research results cited: “Research indicated that the introduction of a 40km/h speed zone can significantly reduce the risk of death for vulnerable road users. For example, a 10km/h decrease in speed can reduce the risk of death for pedestrians and cyclists by over 50 percent.”

No mention of any other intended/expected benefits…(how many pedestrians have been killed in Woden/Gungahlin? 50% of zero is still zero.)

More speed humps though.. Woohoo. Gotta be better than the new speed humps on Flinders Way though – 60km/h zone with new speed humps each with a recommended speed of 20km/h, but safe to do at 60km/h in a wide enough car. What’s the point except to inconvenience small car drivers?

Sure, it may not be safe to do more than a crawl on a number of those streets at certain times, but people have worked that out already (and those that haven’t won’t pay attention to this anyway). No need for 24/7 speed limit reduction though.

I’ve got no problem with this except, as m_ratt has mentioned, it seems to be based on research into pedestrian safety as various speeds, and is not linked to real data on how many people are injured here. Are these blackspots for pedestrians?
What they should have presented was the problem (the number of injuries etc on those roads – not presented), the research (as sited), the proposed trial details (presented), and how they are going to evaluate its effectiveness (not presented).
It’s probably a good idea, the whole thing just looks a bit sloppy really – kinda like they are randomly picking causes to crusade for.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Can you explain why you need to travel at 60 km/hr through a pedestrian-heavy zone?

Not need, but the Gungahlin case is complicated by the stupid way Flemington Road (a major artery) suddenly turns into pedestrian-friendly Hibberson. It’s as though Barry Drive turned into Bunda Street to get through Civic. Fine if you know where to turn off, a pain if you don’t.

toadstool said :

While on the subject of speed limits, why has Mugga Lane been reduced from 80km/h to 70km/h between the pound and the tip?

I don’t know, but it’ll add at least 5 seconds to my trip. My life is ruined! I might as well end it all now!

(My sarcasm is not aimed specifically at you… I have spent too much time on this website reading complaints about speed limits and it has damaged my brain.)

While on the subject of speed limits, why has Mugga Lane been reduced from 80km/h to 70km/h between the pound and the tip?

Its impossible to go faster than 40 through Gungahlin town centre anyway. There are busy pedestrian crossings everywhere, plus people who run out all over the place without looking.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Chief Ten Beers said :

Australia. World’s biggest Nanny State.

Jesus tittyf***ing christ. Seriously?

It’s easy to make accusations about the “world’s biggest blah” when you haven’t been anyway or done any research.

World’s biggest idiot! – for example.

magiccar9 said :

This is absolutely ridiculous! How many incidents have occurred to warrant this speed decrease? Perhaps if the pedestrians pulled their heads out of their asses and payed attention once in a while the drivers could continue to focus on DRIVING! – not watching out for every codger not looking when they cross the road!

Can you explain why you need to travel at 60 km/hr through a pedestrian-heavy zone?

Chief Ten Beers said :

Australia. World’s biggest Nanny State.

Jesus tittyf***ing christ. Seriously?

This is absolutely ridiculous! How many incidents have occurred to warrant this speed decrease? Perhaps if the pedestrians pulled their heads out of their asses and payed attention once in a while the drivers could continue to focus on DRIVING! – not watching out for every codger not looking when they cross the road!

dtc said :

A few weeks ago, one rainy Sunday afternoon, I was stopped by a police while going through the ‘shared zone’ along Childers St and shown the radar gun: 40 km/h.

I was told that, in fact, the shared zone has a speed limit of ……10 km/h.

As such, potentially a v large fine (imagine being 30km/h over the limit while travelling at 40 km/h). Anyway, I was let off and told the guy was just warning people following an accident earlier that day.

Now I was very surprised it was 10 km/h, so subsequently I went back to check the signs. Sure enough they are 10 km/h but the sign is about the size of a ‘school zone’ sign (rectangular) and the top 2/3 of the sign says’ shared zone’ and then there is a tiny little ’10’ at the bottom.

I realise its a big construction zone at the moment and previously there were single lane sections. But a shared zone needs single lanes, speed humps, multiple cross walks (eg Manuka). Do it properly, don’t wait until some poor schmuck fails to notice a tiny little sign saying 10 km/h

Its a shared zone, an area shared with pedestrians – not a road dedicated primarily to cars but with a special speed limit. You’re also meant to give way to pedestrians everywhere along that space. I make no comment on the wisdom of such an idea.

The 40k zone in town centers makes a lot of sense – they are destinations and motorists tend to be finding their way to parking spot and set downs, not passing through to go somewhere else. Both zones are easily by-passed unless you’re actually going to the use centers.

A few weeks ago, one rainy Sunday afternoon, I was stopped by a police while going through the ‘shared zone’ along Childers St and shown the radar gun: 40 km/h.

I was told that, in fact, the shared zone has a speed limit of ……10 km/h.

As such, potentially a v large fine (imagine being 30km/h over the limit while travelling at 40 km/h). Anyway, I was let off and told the guy was just warning people following an accident earlier that day.

Now I was very surprised it was 10 km/h, so subsequently I went back to check the signs. Sure enough they are 10 km/h but the sign is about the size of a ‘school zone’ sign (rectangular) and the top 2/3 of the sign says’ shared zone’ and then there is a tiny little ’10’ at the bottom.

Now:

– school zones are populated by tiny little children with no idea and have an apparently ‘safe’ speed of 40 km/h, whereas Childers St is occupied by uni students and the odd artiste who should know better (well, ok, maybe not too much difference there); and

– school zones get large orange sign, multiple warnings etc about the change to the speed limits, while Childers St gets a tiny little speed notice, which is often hidden behind a big sign saying ‘changed traffic conditions ahead’

If there really is an intention to make this 10 km/h (a ludicrous speed, most auto cars will do 10 km/h when in gear, even without any accelerator usage) then surely greater warnings etc need to be provided.

I realise its a big construction zone at the moment and previously there were single lane sections. But a shared zone needs single lanes, speed humps, multiple cross walks (eg Manuka). Do it properly, don’t wait until some poor schmuck fails to notice a tiny little sign saying 10 km/h

KeenGolfer said :

Chief Ten Beers said :

Australia. World’s biggest Nanny State.

It’s quite the opposite, we’re lagging behind most 1st world countries which have been 50 kph or less for a long time in towns. The UK has had 30 mph (48 kph) limites in towns for about 80 years, we’ve only done so within the last 10 years.

Some, such as Finland have a 30 kph limit in all towns and having travelled there quite a bit, it works well for them.

I have no problem with all town centres being 40 kph due to the high pedestrian traffic in those areas. The drop from 50 to 40 driving through the town will hold you up for a few seconds at most. Seeing as many ACT drivers add 5-10, treating 50 zones as 55-60, a 40 zone many will still drive about 45-50.

Very true. These places also have higher speeds on freeways and sensible limits on country roads. A proper speed limit review to get the different zones set at appropriaye levels would be terrific.

Working in an office building in Woden I will be glad to see this, The number of people who tear down Corrinna St like it is a race track is amazinging considering there are busy buildings on both sides of the road and three pedestrian crossings.

BTW, where Mr G? I want to see his views on this.

astrojax said :

Chief Ten Beers said :

Australia. World’s biggest Nanny State.

well, off ya toddle, then, to colombia or ethiopia or the democratic republic of congo or some other blissful utopia to indulge some anarchy… let us know how you go.

Actually Addis Ababa, the Ethiopian capital, has a 40kph speed limit within the city limits …

Chief Ten Beers said :

Australia. World’s biggest Nanny State.

well, off ya toddle, then, to colombia or ethiopia or the democratic republic of congo or some other blissful utopia to indulge some anarchy… let us know how you go.

Chief Ten Beers said :

Australia. World’s biggest Nanny State.

It’s quite the opposite, we’re lagging behind most 1st world countries which have been 50 kph or less for a long time in towns. The UK has had 30 mph (48 kph) limites in towns for about 80 years, we’ve only done so within the last 10 years.

Some, such as Finland have a 30 kph limit in all towns and having travelled there quite a bit, it works well for them.

I have no problem with all town centres being 40 kph due to the high pedestrian traffic in those areas. The drop from 50 to 40 driving through the town will hold you up for a few seconds at most. Seeing as many ACT drivers add 5-10, treating 50 zones as 55-60, a 40 zone many will still drive about 45-50.

eily said :

Don’t know about Gungahlin but if anyone can do more then 40 around those Woden streets…someone’s deluding themselves. Bradley street in particular; a single one way narrow lane.

Agree. 40kph would be an increase

So, what is the metric to test the effectiveness of the trial? Reduction in pedestrian deaths?

Seems like the only valid metric given the research results cited: “Research indicated that the introduction of a 40km/h speed zone can significantly reduce the risk of death for vulnerable road users. For example, a 10km/h decrease in speed can reduce the risk of death for pedestrians and cyclists by over 50 percent.”

No mention of any other intended/expected benefits…(how many pedestrians have been killed in Woden/Gungahlin? 50% of zero is still zero.)

More speed humps though.. Woohoo. Gotta be better than the new speed humps on Flinders Way though – 60km/h zone with new speed humps each with a recommended speed of 20km/h, but safe to do at 60km/h in a wide enough car. What’s the point except to inconvenience small car drivers?

Sure, it may not be safe to do more than a crawl on a number of those streets at certain times, but people have worked that out already (and those that haven’t won’t pay attention to this anyway). No need for 24/7 speed limit reduction though.

Australia. World’s biggest Nanny State.

30 would have been better. A person who is struck by a vehicle at 30km/h has a 95% chance of surviving.

These areas are commercial areas that rely on people walking around to survive, not highways intended to convey people through the area as quickly as possible. Pedestrian priority should be significantly higher than it currently is in areas such as this.

I wonder when Townshend and Botany Street will be lowered from the absurdly high, major arterial speed of 60km/h.

Some consistency would be nice ACT Gov.

I wonder if Australian Standard 1742.4 will be followed when any of the 40 signs are put up?

actroads.org

Gungahlin Al said :

The main street of Gungahlin (Hibberson) has been 40kph for more than a year.

No problem at all. If anything 40 is still to fast for the environment.

This just extends it to the immediately surrounding streets, which are also of low-speed driving environment.

I agree. I think I rarely get up to 40 in that main street because the pedestrian crossings are close together and there’s just too much activity going on. I don’t mind if they implement that speed limit in the surrounding streets and all town centres.

I think that makes it 100% implementation for my ALP policy initiatives I put forward 15 years go. They laughed at me then. But I showed them! Mwoooahhhahahahhahahahah!

The main street of Gungahlin (Hibberson) has been 40kph for more than a year.

No problem at all. If anything 40 is still to fast for the environment.

This just extends it to the immediately surrounding streets, which are also of low-speed driving environment.

eily said :

Don’t know about Gungahlin but if anyone can do more then 40….

My thoughts exactly re Gungahlin. With the amount of cars (parked and moving), the narrow streets, buses and pedestrians crossing here there and everywhere, you have to do 40 or less to be safe and not hit anyone/anything.

Don’t know about Gungahlin but if anyone can do more then 40 around those Woden streets…someone’s deluding themselves. Bradley street in particular; a single one way narrow lane.

Perhaps we could have a wider review of speed limits, as there are some which (in my opinion) need to go up, and some that need to to go down.

(tee hee, go down)

Can we trust Simple Simon to actually treat this as a trial? Like hell we can.

We’ll have to push the cars through town centres shortly.