18 March 2014

Bike Searching

18 March 2014 | Lloyd

Hiya. I am looking to get into cycling (the non lycra type!). I am overweight and havent ridden in a hundred years. Does anyone know what a good bike would be for the likes of me? I have researched and it seems that 36> spokes is the go as well as a damn comfortable seat!! I intend to start really slow so any good recommendations would be really appraciated.

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Leon5:47 pm 01 Apr 14

patrick_keogh said :

Lighter bikes are often built with better quality components, materials and construction methods.

Unless you can afford titanium, lighter bikes typically use aluminium alloy or carbon fibre components. Neither of these materials is as durable or reliable as steel. A friend of mine had a problem with the headset bearing on his carbon framed bike, that simply would not have happened on a steel or alloy frame. The headset bearing was so poorly constructed that it had to be replaced.

Mordd7:57 pm 28 Mar 14

Be ultra cool and get a recumbent, no lycra required, just call Flying Furniture Cycles, your local Canberra recumbent specialist: http://www.flyingfurniture.com.au/

patrick_keogh4:55 pm 28 Mar 14

Leon said :

The lighter the bike, the more likely it will break.

Not quite Leon. Your statement would be true in the case of all other things being equal, but they seldom are 🙂 Lighter bikes are often built with better quality components, materials and construction methods. So the common modes of failure (broken spokes, broken axles, cracked forks, broken drivetrain components) appear to occur more frequently on cheaper, heavier bikes than they do on a lighter bike with better quality components and attention to detail.

dtc3:12 pm 28 Mar 14

Nanouk said :

Sorry, I am not sure I understand what you ask.

Look, all else being equal a lighter bike is probably better

But as lighter bikes are usually much more expensive, there is little benefit in pursuing a light bike for the sake of commuting.

Leon11:49 am 28 Mar 14

Nanouk said :

dtc said :

So a total mass of, say, 115kg (100kg rider, 5kg pack and 10kg bike) is much easier to move than a total mass of 118kg (13kg bike?)

Of course, paying that extra $500 for the lighter bike takes some of the weight out of your wallet

buy a light road bike.)

The lighter the bike, the more likely it will break.

A lighter bike will feel more responsive, but research has shown that reducing overall weight by 3% (by spending the extra money to buy a bike that’s 3kg lighter) will reduce you journey time by only about 2%.

On the other hand, tests by Greenspeed indicate that a pair of 80 psi semi-slick tyres will reduce your rolling resistance by about 14 watts, compared with 65 psi mountain bike tyres.

Nanouk12:58 pm 27 Mar 14

dtc said :

So a total mass of, say, 115kg (100kg rider, 5kg pack and 10kg bike) is much easier to move than a total mass of 118kg (13kg bike?)

Of course, paying that extra $500 for the lighter bike takes some of the weight out of your wallet

Sorry, I am not sure I understand what you ask. I just mean that a 100kg person on a 8kg bike will move more easily than on a 15kg bike. And I really don’t think that he should buy a mountain bike or even an hybrid bike. I am telling this because I am 100kg myself, and a lighter person wouldn’t probably feel a 5kg bike difference. When you are overweight, are not a good rider, are not much into sport, just moving yourself on a bike is quite a challenge. So I am sure you all gave him good avices, but I stick to it: buy a light road bike. We are not sure how long how often how step he will use his bike, but he wants to “start really slow”, so I think a helpful advice for him not to be discouraged is to take an easy bike and take easy rides (no I guess he won’t use his bike in the bush, so why on earth would you want him to get a mountain bike?). For instance, I bought a bike one day, a good quality mountain bike: my normal 9km ride back home took an hour. Fortunately I managed to get an exchange the same day and rode back home the same way on a lighter road bike and it took me 40 minutes. (yes, it is incredibly long anyway, but that’s going uphill all the time and I am not a good rider like you… :p)

patrick_keogh1:31 pm 25 Mar 14

Leon said :

Did you mean to say that each of the individual factors contributes to the performance of the whole package?

If that is what you meant, then we can continue our rational discussion of the relative effects on performace of individual factors such as suspension and squishy tyres.

Well across my collection of bicycles, many of the individual factors come into effect…

Weight is a minor factor, rotating weight (tyres and rims) much more noticeable. Zero effect when riding with constant velocity on level ground, but any change of speed, altitude or direction you can notice.

Rolling resistance of the tyres. Definitely a factor. Even between different brands of 23mm slick road tyres I can notice a difference. There is recent research that shows that rolling resistance as a function of tyre pressure is VERY dependent on surface dynamics, so 110psi is not always best.

Aerodynamics only really a factor riding into the wind or at relatively high speed or for relatively long distances. It does mean however that my drop bar bikes are better than my flat bar bikes under these conditions. This could bring in fairing as an idea, but it has proven impractical in varied (e.g. crosswind) conditions.

Suspension. It definitely soaks up energy. All of the work to do those compressions and rebounds comes out of your legs. So much so that I will routinely lock out the suspension when it is not required (fire trails, paved surfaces or climbing). After an off-road ride, put your hand on your suspension. That warmth came out of your leg muscles. Any suspension system also contributes mass, but this is frequently a minor contributor. As an aside, the same goes for all those riders you see bobbing their heads. Your head is heavy. Moving it around costs energy. Your body pays.

Suspension dynamics, whether it be frame materials/design, suspension, correct tyre pressure, saddle compliance. Here’s the flip side for suspension. If you don’t have it and your body is part of the suspension system instead, then it requires energy to maintain body position. So on rough surfaces and long distances this will cancel out the energy costs of the suspension. That’s why a lot of road riders moved to titanium or carbon fibre. Not the weight, but because the suspension dynamics are less tiring than aluminium frames.

So what does all this add up to? There is no such thing as a “most efficient” bike. That depends on riding conditions. All other things being equal, on a flat, smooth surface, a track bike with narrow, high pressure tyres and only one gear is the most efficient. For non-extreme cross country mountain bike courses, it appears that at least front suspension adds value. Around town, commuting etc., I would value acceleration, steering and braking over efficiency anyway.

Last, the slowest and most de-energising ride is one where you have to stop to fix two flat tyres. That is why tubeless tyres are a runaway success on MTBs and why they will probably take over on road bikes too, as they did on cars. It also explains why heavier but more puncture-resistant tyres like the Schwalbe Marathons, Conti Gatorskins etc. are popular.

After all this slightly technical discussion, don’t lose sight of the fact that most bicycles will do pretty well at the task. That is why the bicycle continues to be the world’s most popular form of non-pedestrian transport.

dtc1:07 pm 25 Mar 14

Nanouk said :

I don’t know much about push bikes, as I ride mostly an electric bike myself.

But I lost 12kg with an electric bike, so I guess you will indeed lose some weight with a normal bike!
Having tried a few bikes (but can’t remember names or anything), my only advice is to get a LIGHT road bike. A heavy bike, or a mountain bike on a nice road => it will be a nightmare to move your weight. I am 100kg myself, unless you are heavier than that I wouldn’t worry about bike strenght: yes, it will withstand your weight. So take the lightest bike, so you don’t add that to what you will have to move. :

So a total mass of, say, 115kg (100kg rider, 5kg pack and 10kg bike) is much easier to move than a total mass of 118kg (13kg bike?)

Of course, paying that extra $500 for the lighter bike takes some of the weight out of your wallet

Leon10:10 am 25 Mar 14

thatsnotme said :

Leon said :

If you really believe that the Anthem is slower than the Masi because of its suspension and not because of its big squishy tyres, then you can test your theory by (1) locking out the Anthem’s suspension and seeing if you can measure any improvement in your average speed, and/or (2) putting 38 mm tyres on the Anthem (similar to the ones on the Masi) and measuring the speed improvement.

We’d all love to know the results.

The fact of it is, that it’s the whole package that contributes, not any one individual factor.

This is the sort of twisted statement that we love on the RiotACT.

Did you mean to say that each of the individual factors contributes to the performance of the whole package?

If that is what you meant, then we can continue our rational discussion of the relative effects on performace of individual factors such as suspension and squishy tyres.

Nanouk1:09 pm 24 Mar 14

I don’t know much about push bikes, as I ride mostly an electric bike myself.

But I lost 12kg with an electric bike, so I guess you will indeed lose some weight with a normal bike!
Having tried a few bikes (but can’t remember names or anything), my only advice is to get a LIGHT road bike. A heavy bike, or a mountain bike on a nice road => it will be a nightmare to move your weight. I am 100kg myself, unless you are heavier than that I wouldn’t worry about bike strenght: yes, it will withstand your weight. So take the lightest bike, so you don’t add that to what you will have to move. 🙂

I also want to second another person here about helmets. When I was closer to work I used to ride a proper push bike and I did have a little accident (all by myself but still: head injury – hospital etc). My helmet broke and probably protected me quite a lot. But forcing people to wear helmets gives them a wrong sense of protection and makes road less safe. So even if it is sometimes protect you, it most probably make your ride less safe.

And there was another question about kids… I used to ride with my child to day care every day, 9km one way. He liked it a lot and it wasn’t too hard, as it was with my electric bike. 🙂

troll-sniffer9:50 pm 19 Mar 14

zorro29 said :

Good for you getting back on the bike!!! Like others say, it’ll hurt at first regardless…but after a few weeks you’ll develop what I like to call “bike a*rse” and you’ll be able to ride all over the place with no pain.

Agree with others that Giant bikes are good value. I would recommend a commuter cycle with wide handlebars (brushed backwards for extra comfort)…wider tyres will make you feel more secure and give a more comfy/softer ride (and easier to pump up due to lower psi) even if it costs you a few extra minutes on the ride time.

Don’t go for a cheapie bike (like elsewhere suggested)…around $1000 is pretty reasonable for a solid and safe bike. Anything less than about $700 will probably be crap and need more improvements than it’s worth.

My partner and I are the “lycra types” (lol) – we both have performance bikes for dry days and bikes that are suitable for rainy days. If you want to ride in the rain, make sure you have some traction on your tyres (and guards) or it’s pretty dangerous. The slick racing tyres of performance bikes shouldnt be ridden in the rain.

Also invest about $100 for decent lights for front and rear…as well as a helmet (around $50 should be right but lighter ones can be up to around $500). And if you’re riding at dusk/evening, visible/reflective clothing. Cars don’t look for you – keep yourself as safe as possible. The a bike pump – most have presta valves now…but the pumps usually do both.

And in Canberra, gloves are essential for winter (so your fingers continue to be able to operate the gears!!)…and be careful for black ice on winter mornings.

Canberra is a great (and forgiving) place to ride…so many safe places dedicated to cycling. Enjoy 🙂

My second to last bike was a Giant Elwood that is still running well at the holiday hose, it was around $300 I believe. My current bike is the Giant Cypress 3 which I bought for $346 about 3 years ago. No need to pay more than $400 for a good Giant hybrid bike that will easily see the other side of 10,000 km if maintained. Then, if you get that far, you’ll know if you want to move up to the $700+ bracket.

Another advantage of the cheaper bike? Never even gets looked at by the cycle-stealing scum who patrol the city and environs.

gasman10:10 pm 18 Mar 14

I must argue against the so-called comfort bike (aka hybrid aka city bike). They try to be jack of all trades but end up being master of none. They have high handlebars, with low saddles, which forces more body weight onto the butt, leaving you sore. They are great to ride stylishly 500m to the local cafe, but for anything more, they fall short.

For a first bike, get a decent quality mountain bike. Front suspension is good. Giant is good value, but the actual brand is less important than the fit. Go to a bike shop, not a department store. Between $500 and $2000 you get what you pay for. i.e. a $1000 bike is a seriously better ride than a $500 bike, and a $2000 bike will be noticeably better than a $1000 bike. Above $2000 the return on investment diminishes greatly. Highly advise to spend as much as your budget allows – you will get a better ride, and therefore use it more often. Over the 5-10 year life of a bike, the extra couple of hundred $ is not much, but you will have a more enjoyable time.

Mountain bikes are great on dirt and trails, but they are also great on bike paths and roads. I ride 18km each way to work. A mountain bike is only a couple of minutes slower over that distance than a road bike – 33 minutes, vs 35 minutes – but more comfortable to ride. Plus I can go up and down curbs, over gravel with ease, take shortcuts that I couldn’t do on a road bike. If you ride sealed roads/paths a lot, you can always put slicks (smooth tires) on the mountain bike for extra speed.

Mountain bikes ride a little more upright than a road bike, meaning less back and neck strain. The saddle is surprisingly not so important. Make sure your saddle height is set properly (usually higher than you think) so you put less weight on your butt, and more on your legs and arms. Lift your butt when going over bumps. The saddle is used more for balance than for supporting your weight.

If you haven’t ridden for years, it WILL hurt for the first week or 2. Your butt will be bruised, and muscles not used to doing work will be forced into action. Just keep riding! After the first 2 weeks, things get easier, and your fitness will improve very very fast. You will be surprised how a ride that seemed like torture when you first started will become easy and fun after a few weeks.

You don’t have to wear special clothes. Lycra is good because is doesn’t chafe, but shorts are good too. Cotton get really sweaty in summer, hence the cycle jerseys, but in autumn/winter/spring, it doesn’t really matter. If you are on roads, wear bright colours.

Bottom line – just ride! Its fun!

Grail3:45 pm 18 Mar 14

Assuming you’re talking about a push bike, I highly recommend the Lonsdale Street Cyclery. They have a decent range and will help you pick something that’s most suited to your stature, structure and fitness level.

The bike shop in O’Connor (next to Duxtons, which used to be All Bar None) used to have a seat profiling system which would attempt to match seats to your bum cheeks (technically, the Ischium bones, lower part of the Pelvis). Their custom-matched seats are a bit pricey, but it’s worth asking them and seeing if you can get a “test sit”. The comfort of a seat, unfortunately, is hard to gauge in anything other than a half hour of riding, but you can get a pretty good idea from your first bum contact. It’s also worth getting a slip-on gel pad for when you start riding, since it takes some time for your buttocks (and bollocks) to get used to the pressures of riding.

As for clothes, the main attraction of lycra is that it is tight-fitting. This means that you won’t get chafing on longer/sweatier rides. There’s nothing wrong with being overweight and wearing lycra: people will be just as judgemental regardless of what clothes you’re wearing. If you really want to avoid lycra, get some very loose fitting cargo pants (“below the knee shorts”). My experience was that cargo pants chafed less than shorts, mainly because the shorts had hem lines mid-thigh which was the part of my body moving the most.

I have two favourite T-shirts for riding. One is a relatively heavy weave “Ride to Work Day” shirt which is awesome for Winter. The other is a lighter weave shirt suitable for Summer, it lets a lot more wind through than the RTW Day shirt. You can also get jackets which zip at the front and have a mesh/open back, which are good for the cool foggy days of Canberran Winter when you want to keep the cold damp air from flowing down your chest, but you don’t want to keep your back hot and sweat-soaked.

In Winter I wear a pair of long lycra leggings under my shorts. It looks daggy but I stay warm. I also have two light polar fleece jackets, so I can wear zero, one or two layers of fleece as the conditions require. I do the same for gloves: one very tight fitting “under glove” and a looser glove which allows me to tailor what’s on my hands for the conditions.

As far as safety gear goes, the most important safety gear is a good pair of gloves. If you come off your bike, you will instinctively reach out to break your fall with your hands. A good pair of gloves will reduce the amount of laceration and embedded gravel you get in your hands. For most of the people I know, working hands are vital to their job, so protect them. Most people can cope with grazed knees much easier than grazed hands. There are also nerves in your palm that are very exposed, so there’s an extra reason to be more careful about your hands. My preferred cycling gloves will have “armour pads” for the ball of the hand (the fleshy bit just before the wrist), the metacarpals (the pads at the base of the fingers) and finger tips. I don’t go mountain biking much, so I have no need for “knuckle armour” to protect my hands from branches and rocks slapping into me as I’m riding, I just need the impact protection for my outstretched hand as I hit the ground.

I’ve been riding for 30 years, come off my bike a dozen times, even been hit by a car. In all those years I’ve never hit my head. I don’t believe that helmets do anything other than satisfy a bunch of worry-warts and helmet manufacturers (the safety standards don’t even simulate any realistic head injury scenario). Having said so, we have laws about the use of helmets so please pick a helmet that matches the laws and use it.

But back to your original question: I would look for a bike with higher pressure street tyres to start with. These will roll much easier, meaning you exert less effort to get anywhere. I’m not sure what the style of bike is called, but my current cycle is an Avanti Blade. This has a straight handlebar like a mountain bike (rather than the typical racing rolled-under bar), but a light-weight frame, high pressure tyres and about 21 gear combinations. There is a gear to suit whatever situation I face.

But like I said at the beginning, the folks at the Cyclery will be able to help you make a good choice, just be aware that high pressure tyres are much easier to ride on while you’re on sealed paths. Chunky, low pressure tyres are much better for bush-bashing, but soak up a lot of your energy making for a harder ride. Stay away from any suspension (except a compressible seat post for comfort) unless you’re into mountain biking. Suspension is just another way of turning your pedalling into heat without any benefit to locomotion. For mountain bikers, suspension is sometimes the difference between coming home on a bike versus a stretcher, because you actually want to absorb a lot of energy to slow down your forward movement.

One last thing: I highly recommend joining Pedal Power. They’re a cyclist advocacy group, and they send you a nifty magazine which has good advice and a number of aspirational articles of thin, energetic people riding across Australia, Asia, Europe or elsewhere. They also have a group insurance policy that means you’ll be covered for third party property and personal damage while riding your bike.

Hope this helps!

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